When did the US government begin collecting the serial numbers on firearms? How long can a firearm be traced to its original purchaser?

quote:

Originally posted by abnmacv:
When did the US government begin collecting the serial numbers on firearms?

They don't.

quote:

Originally posted by abnmacv:
When did the US government begin collecting the serial numbers on firearms? How long can a firearm be traced to its original purchaser?

Some federal databases are accessible via a serial number. The trace of a firearm usually begins with the manufacturer, then to a wholesaler, etc.; however, sometimes an owner can be identified from other databases (e.g. Multiple Sales), records in possession, etc.

Thanks for the info. Trying to trace back a gun to the original purchaser looks like a dead end proposition.

Not really. When they trace a gun you go to the mfr. who then tells you where they sent it and then who ultimately sold it retail. And then they look in those FFL books and say who
the retail purchaser was. That (there are some minor exceptions like the FFL out of business in which case the atf has it directly or aged out) generally means the original purchaser is information that can be found at least in the modern era, private sales old guns etc. are exceptions.

The trace process is a slow, resource intensive pain in the ass and it is such by design. The link below is a video from The Atlantic about the folks that deal with out of business records. They go as far as scanning things in an image format so that they can't use OCR (I know you can run images through OCR software later), so committed are they to not having an electronically searchable database.

https://youtu.be/rMQ2b6ZwwCU

If the requirement is to determine the purchaser of a crime gun involved in a high profile situation, the trace process will be expedited, and is frequently completed within minutes or hours.

It may be true that traces are resource intensive as working around the statutory limits is a mess to avoid the registry constructs, but it works just fine. Lots of manpower potentially but mostly not that of the people requesting the trace so they don't care. To the OP point of "dead end proposition" that is simply incorrect for anything in the recent decades (the exceptions I noted earlier).

I run firearm traces weekly. Every firearm that come into our department's possession gets traced (as long as it has a SN).

As mentioned previously, the trace goes to ATF to Manufacturer to Distributor/Wholesaler/Retailer. Ultimately the retailer has to find the pertinent 4473 and relay the info to the ATF who relays it to me. That's if all goes well. I occasionally run into a dead end, especially when an out-of-business dealer didn't keep great records. Or when ANY retailer didn't keep great records!

On average, I get my traces back in two weeks.

Good info about traces. A few things not covered in the other excellent posts. Tracing older guns is near impossible. It’s rare that I get a trace back earlier than about 1995. It happens from time to time, but it’s rare. If an FFL has been in business for over 20 years, he only has to keep 20 years worth of 4473s. Seemingly, a bound book is forever, but some places don’t have them back that far.

Tracing is a great tool, but there are holes in the coverage.

Out of business FFLs turn their paperwork in to WVA. Those paper records degrade there too.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
... Out of business FFLs turn their paperwork in to WVA. Those paper records degrade there too.

As resources permit, the OOB FFL records that have been sent in to the NTC are microfilmed.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Orndorff:
I run firearm traces weekly. Every firearm that come into our department's possession gets traced (as long as it has a SN).

As mentioned previously, the trace goes to ATF to Manufacturer to Distributor/Wholesaler/Retailer. Ultimately the retailer has to find the pertinent 4473 and relay the info to the ATF who relays it to me. That's if all goes well. I occasionally run into a dead end, especially when an out-of-business dealer didn't keep great records. Or when ANY retailer didn't keep great records!

On average, I get my traces back in two weeks.

many years ago I was called by the tracing center,

very nice lady asked me for info on a firearm that we had sold years before,

I asked her for the license number (as in my FFL) before I went to look,

she gave me my Father's FFL, and when I told her I could not give her any info she got rather perturbed,

after she got finished reading me the riot act, (in a very polite but firm manner) I told her that license was closed, since my Father was a sole proprietor, and I did not have those records any longer,

she asked why?

and I told her I had placed them in the truck of one of the ATF compliance guys car a month or so prior,


he got a call, and she was not as nice to him, since they still had the records,

Depends on the state.

MA keeps a database of all firearms transferred in the state. I am sure other blue states do too.

I am not sure what you would need to access the data. Be a LEO?

Safe to assume they can find out who owned the gun on the day it left the dealer. The feds have no idea who owns the gun after that date. If a state or local gov mandates registration, they can know more.

In Michigan you take a copy of record of purchase to your local LEA. They forward it to state police.

quote:

Originally posted by neex:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETrace

Interesting, thanks.

The other day I submitted an eTrace and got the result back almost immediately. I thought "how the hell??" then noticed that the pistol I submitted was part of a multiple handgun sale, so it was already in the ATF system.

quote:

Tracing is a great tool, but there are holes in the coverage.

I've often wondered what if anything is done with early 20th century (and earlier) firearms that were made with no identifiable serial number. We've had a few over the years that have been transferred in by local customers. Most of the companies that made these are long gone, and even if ATF by chance has any of their transfer records on file there's no S/N for them to reference to.

The Feds DO have a record of more recent handgun purchases/transfers. Thanks to the 1968 Gun Control Act, that particular database contains data on multiple handgun transfers made by an individual during a set period of time (five days) with a single FFL dealer, with additional reporting if the same person has further transfers within the same period of time of any previous transfer. The date of the actual pick-up of a handgun (when the pistol or revolver transfer is completed; long guns are excluded from this reporting) is what starts and/or extends the 5-day window. These reports must also be sent to local authorities as well.

I've long suspected that ATF might use this data to keep track of both the transferee AND dealer, if only to see if there's any sketchy pattern developing that might require further investigation on their part. The following ATF link probably spells it out better than my brief description above:

ATF Multiple Firearms Sales Reporting

Oh and as for the literal TITLE of your thread? Yes, the Feds certainly DO maintain a "FFL database" on license holders.

Slightly off topic but hopefully someone here can answer for me.

I have a .22 Marlin rifle that my Grandfather gave to me (when he was living in New York city no less) and I would guess is at least 50 years old.

So my question is when we’re FFL’s required to sell a gun?

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
So my question is when we’re FFL’s required to sell a gun?

The FFL system was a result of the 1968 GCA.