Eventually I will do a full write up of my year in firearms training. However, I wanted to be fair with my critiques on the P320 for those interested.
This particular gun has been to Bruce Gray twice for their carry package. Bruce did not like how it felt at MOAC and said he would take a look at it for me. That is the kind of person he is.
The Gun has been to a dozen shooting course in 2016 including MOAC. It has in excess of 35k but thats what I know its been through.
I cleaned it after each course and took decent care of it. Every type of ammunition was shot through it including steel case.
This past range session I saw multiple failures to extract. First time I have been more then one malfunction in a range session.
Upon examination I see some sort of shine on the extractor. I have a feeling the 5k rounds of steel case hurt it (although I have no proof).
I have ordered a new extractor from SIG and already had a new recoil spring ready to go. I will report back once I have replaced these items.
NRA Training Counselor
NRA Benefactor Member
Looks like an extractor issue as well, either the extractor itself, or spring. Probably an easy fix.
Wow! That's $7K in ammo at $0.20/rnd on sale.
Risk the consequences of honesty...
35k rounds before a failure, that's a risk id be willing to take. I think i need to get one!
My thoughts as well. Id like to shoot one first though
Mine had failures in the first 100 lol. I think the HK p30 went 91k rounds. Congrats on yours
Use thumb-size bullets to create fist-size holes.
I read a post somewhere from someone claiming to be a P320 certified armorer that listed 20,000 rounds as the extractor replacement interval.
"They who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
"So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause."
- Senator Amidala (Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith)
35K. I am fine with that!
End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
|addicted to trailing-throttle oversteer|
35k...yup, it's reached Toyota status.
|Sigforum K9 handler|
I like this!
"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011
"There are only two reasons why a proven technique doesn't work under stress: the shooter isn't adequately trained in it's application, or he/she doesn't really believe it will work because he/she is programmed for failure to begin with." BG
|His diet consists of black|
coffee, and sarcasm.
If you've never broken anything on a gun, you haven't shot it enough. I've had disabling breakages (having to do with springs) long before 35,000 rounds. A SIG 1911 I had circa 2007 broke its extractor in less than 300.
Now here's something we hope you'll really like.
Wow, a dozen shooting courses and 35k rounds? With my Budget, my 320 will never have to fear that kind of abuse.
No one's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session.- Mark Twain
Open question for anybody. Is there any authoritative info out there regarding use of steel case ammo in pistols? To be specific, premature wear on components the case comes in contact with. Extractors, for example.
I've neither used steel case not have I read anything on it. Neither do I intend to. If someone can fill in my ignorance on the matter, please post.
While I'm suspicious, like the OP, I can't even hypothesize if there is any connection.
First, the shiny area could just be steel polishing steel, as opposed to brass polishing steel. Second, the failure occurred 15,000 rounds past the recommended extractor duty cycle. Not bad.
The 35,000 + round count with no abnormal failures is pretty impressive. Especially given extensive use in training courses, likely with high daily round counts. Pistols tend to heat up and get dirty under those conditions, which can cause some malfunctions not experienced in normal use.
Thanks for posting. More info for the collective P320 database.
An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler
Well as a dedicated steel ammo cheapskate I am curious of this answer as well. I spread my Tula love over multiple guns so I can't say I have ever broken one using steel.
Here is my follow on question. Breaking the extractor on the 320 is no big deal, buy a new one go another 35k rounds right? But, looking at the FCU the ejector is part of the steel U beam that is part of the "firearm". If it were to break you can't replace it short of buying an entire new gun. I know Glock has used different ejectors on their different gens and they must break on occasion. Do ejectors break much?
This is rifles. Still relevant to the convo.
I have now ordered a new extractor spring and pin as well.
NRA Training Counselor
NRA Benefactor Member
I have never seen the results of any meaningful tests of steel cased ammunition in pistols, and the common rejoinder when concerns are expressed is, “The steel in cases is softer than the steel in extractors.” That’s probably true, but consider this: the brass used in cartridge cases is also softer than the steel used in extractors and other components. Despite the fact that the brass is softer than any steel, the SIG parts maintenance schedule still calls for replacing extractors in the P320 and Classic-line pistols after 20,000 rounds. That indicates to me that it’s known that the brass causes wear, and if that’s true I cannot but believe that any sort of steel will cause wear more quickly than brass.
And the other example I like to cite is that razor steel is harder than leather, but people still use strops to touch up their shaving instruments. That practice means that either the leather causes wear on the steel or a lot of people have deluded themselves for a long time.
“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
|Man of few words|
I'll take the 1st problem happening at 35K rounds. At that rate I will never get to that level and I'm 43 years old. BTW, I just bought one 2 days ago and look forward to shooting it soon.
It is my impression steel cases also had a tendency to stick in the chamber which is why most steel cases are coated with something.
Even when coated they may require a bit more force to extract them which would be harder on the extractor.
I'm pretty sure I read in a Bruce Gray post that the steel case can eventually wear the top of the chamber from friction as the pistol round is chambering.
Congrats! Like to hear about your training schedule this past year.
I'm approaching 20K through my P320 and but for a handful of failures to extract, no problems. Most of the FTE's occurred during single handed fire.
|Loves His Wife|
So it's probably safe to say you're starting to get comfortable with that pistol?
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