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Picture of SteveR2012
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I have run hundreds of rounds of steel cased ammunition in my P938 with no adverse effects. Being cheap it allows for more practice.
 
Posts: 80 | Location: Wisconsin | Registered: March 25, 2012Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola:
Point taken. Reading his post again, it wasn’t even his gun. CS reps can be as stupid as gun store clerks. I still hate the spreading of bullshit internet lore. Oh and quoting the manual too. They quote something out of manual like it Moses with stone tablets. They ignore all the other gems in that same manual. As you stated. Don’t store loaded. Keep ammo separate. Never shoot your reloads. Void your warranty. Oh brother. It’s like arguing with the spring guys. That spring from the factory is the perfect spring. It was sent from JMB himself. Never never ever change spring weights. They are the experts. Of course those self Saale experts can’t explain why the geniuses at Sig put a red DAK mainspring in a 225a1 and not in a 228, 229, etc. They had a bin full of springs and put them to use. Yea, straight up geniuses.

Whoever claimed his 320 wouldn’t run on steel. If true which I doubt then something is wrong with your gun. Or it’s a lie.

100 bucks, I supply the steel cased ammo, if it won’t shoot you win a hundred bucks. If it runs I win a hundred bucks. Pretty simple and no one would be dumb enough to take this bet.


There is always THAT gun that won't run on a certain brand/type of ammo. I have a CZ 75B SA, it will stovepipe/FTE every other round without fail with Blazer aluminum ammo, without fail. Meanwhile in 6,000 rounds of brass after never buying the aluminum again, it has never had a failure. The aluminum ran perfectly fine in my 6 other guns at the time.

My viewpoint is that pistols were designed to run on brass cased ammo, so that is what I use. Steel would create a little more wear as it is harder (probably a negligable amount in most instances), doesn't expand the same, plus the steel I've shot was always very smelly and dirty. So personally I see no need to buy steel ammo for a few pennies less per box. Unless we're talking about an AK that was designed for steel ammo.
 
Posts: 19840 | Registered: June 12, 2005Report This Post
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Jimmy that is the stupid shit I hate. “Pennies less per box”. Where in the fuck are you buying factory brass ammo for only pennies more than factory steel. Complete and utter horse shit.

Any simple search reveals this. I just checked SGAmmo. No big search but representative. Cheapest steel vs brass per box of 50. 10.99 vs 13.49. That’s 2.50 per box difference. I buy by the case. Mind you, that is with stupid price inflation right now. Usually the gap is even bigger.

Maybe you meant to say a few pennies per round difference. It still adds up to a big difference though.

And this thread has ZERO to do with aluminum cased ammo.
 
Posts: 2834 | Registered: June 18, 2005Report This Post
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There you go one person ruins a discussion .... just my opinion....

but my opinion on the original post is:

A Sig should be able to function with most steel cased ammo... but I also don't believe in shooting cheap ammo in a quality gun. I'll stick with brass cased unless steel is all I got..... and will have probably picked that up off of someone who no longer needs it. (learned that little trick in Ranger training, a long time ago)
 
Posts: 1720 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Report This Post
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Staying with Brass is the safest. I avoid Steel and aluminum.


Democracy is 2 Wolves & a Lamb Debating what to have for Lunch

Liberty is a Well Armed Lamb!!!
 
Posts: 687 | Registered: March 03, 2015Report This Post
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Oh brother. Once again nobody actually has any actual evidence that it’s “safest”. Internet nonsense with nothing to back it up. Good guns need expensive ammo. Total crap.

Sorry to post reality to ruin your thread. Not really.

If you want to pay more for ammo that does nothing different your choice. You guys are probably the same ones wearing masks sitting alone in your cars. ‘Cause it’s safer you know.
 
Posts: 2834 | Registered: June 18, 2005Report This Post
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I saw a few instances of steel case damaging a gun while running a large high volume range. But that was over the course of years and I don't know how many millions of rounds. And while I'm trying to remember them all at the moment I know it was only a couple times. Also saw problems with brass. It was enough that I stick with brass for anything other than my AK. But it could just as easily have been simple QC issues as opposed to the steel itself. Though I've never seen brass rip an extractor off. That one was a ruptured case. Usually when I saw steel cases rupture they split along the entire case length and really get stuck in there.
 
Posts: 1355 | Location: Kansas City  | Registered: June 06, 2010Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola:
Jimmy that is the stupid shit I hate. “Pennies less per box”. Where in the fuck are you buying factory brass ammo for only pennies more than factory steel. Complete and utter horse shit.

Any simple search reveals this. I just checked SGAmmo. No big search but representative. Cheapest steel vs brass per box of 50. 10.99 vs 13.49. That’s 2.50 per box difference. I buy by the case. Mind you, that is with stupid price inflation right now. Usually the gap is even bigger.

Maybe you meant to say a few pennies per round difference. It still adds up to a big difference though.

And this thread has ZERO to do with aluminum cased ammo.


I used the Aluminum reference because every once in a while you will get that ONE GUN that will not shoot a certain bullet for one reason or another (usually bullet shape or OAL). I've seen a quality gun choke on a certain brand of brass ammo but function with everything else as well.

IF virtually EVERY pistol manufacturer AND the manufacturer of your gun says not to use it and it would void the warranty WHY would you use it???? DO YOU know more than the engineers at SIG SAUER? It's equivalent to the guy that buys a corvette, then is too cheap to put in premium unleaded that the car is required to run.

Federal AE 9mm and WW are $11.99 at my local outdoor world, so while not exactly pennies (it's a saying) at a $1 a box more it's not enough difference to worry about unless you're shooting a 1000 rounds per week.

https://www.basspro.com/shop/e...maxPrice:&pageSize:&

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jimmy123x,
 
Posts: 19840 | Registered: June 12, 2005Report This Post
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Originally posted by Blume9mm:
I'll stick with brass cased unless steel is all I got..... and will have probably picked that up off of someone who no longer needs it. (learned that little trick in Ranger training, a long time ago)

Good reason to have a gun that will run steel.
If you have to drop one of those cheap bass turds, you can take his ammo.
Let the gun lay, it won't be worth schitt.

Big Grin
 
Posts: 302 | Registered: November 03, 2019Report This Post
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Jimmy, your link shows out of stock on everything at that price. Besides which steel cased ammo goes in the low 7 SEVEN. dollar range per box. I know you are stuck with your argument but for fucks sake at least keep it factual.

Even the guy who ran a rental range story. High volume guns and you claim you saw damage due to steel cased ammo. Bullshit. How would you even know it was due to that? You also would be the only rental place I’ve ever seen that let you shoot cheaper steel case ammo. Every place I’ve ever been to only sells expensive ammo that you have to buy from them. Hell, I’ve been to ranges that using the stupidity and lack of facts I’ve read on this thread and won’t even let you shoot steel cased ammo.

Once again, the point is shoot what you want. If you keep spouting the same internet nonsense, with no evidence at all though, you literally are right up there with the masking shaming Karen in the middle of a park screaming how dangerous everyone else is.

It’s telling that no one here can post a single picture of all this damage that being caused in “nice” guns. Besides it’s nonsense. Backed up by your neighbors brothers friends “story”.

Show any proof. Two threads over I can show you proof your “nice” guns (Sig metal P series) has a spot under the mag release that likes to fracture more than you would like. All those broken extractor’s and worn out barrels? Nothing. (We are talking handguns not that lucky gunner ar fiasco they called an “experiment”)
 
Posts: 2834 | Registered: June 18, 2005Report This Post
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Originally posted by pedropcola:

Even the guy who ran a rental range story. High volume guns and you claim you saw damage due to steel cased ammo. Bullshit. How would you even know it was due to that? You also would be the only rental place I’ve ever seen that let you shoot cheaper steel case ammo. Every place I’ve ever been to only sells expensive ammo that you have to buy from them. Hell, I’ve been to ranges that using the stupidity and lack of facts I’ve read on this thread and won’t even let you shoot steel cased ammo.



Oh good grief, settle down. Calling bullshit on what I stated is pretty uncalled for. You're straight up calling me a liar. I could go into more detail about what i personally witnessed, but I see you're the internet expert and already know it all. Carry on.
 
Posts: 1355 | Location: Kansas City  | Registered: June 06, 2010Report This Post
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Originally posted by pedropcola:
Jimmy, your link shows out of stock on everything at that price. Besides which steel cased ammo goes in the low 7 SEVEN. dollar range per box. I know you are stuck with your argument but for fucks sake at least keep it factual.

Even the guy who ran a rental range story. High volume guns and you claim you saw damage due to steel cased ammo. Bullshit. How would you even know it was due to that? You also would be the only rental place I’ve ever seen that let you shoot cheaper steel case ammo. Every place I’ve ever been to only sells expensive ammo that you have to buy from them. Hell, I’ve been to ranges that using the stupidity and lack of facts I’ve read on this thread and won’t even let you shoot steel cased ammo.

Once again, the point is shoot what you want. If you keep spouting the same internet nonsense, with no evidence at all though, you literally are right up there with the masking shaming Karen in the middle of a park screaming how dangerous everyone else is.

It’s telling that no one here can post a single picture of all this damage that being caused in “nice” guns. Besides it’s nonsense. Backed up by your neighbors brothers friends “story”.

Show any proof. Two threads over I can show you proof your “nice” guns (Sig metal P series) has a spot under the mag release that likes to fracture more than you would like. All those broken extractor’s and worn out barrels? Nothing. (We are talking handguns not that lucky gunner ar fiasco they called an “experiment”)


Ranges don't want people to use Steel Ammo mainly because they have a recycler or commercial reloader that pays them for all of the brass they sweep up and then they have to sort out all of the near worthless steel cases.

Everyone is out of ammunition right now, but that is THE price, and Outdoor world will give you a rain check to buy it at that price when it does come back in stock.

If my owner's manual of my gun says NOT to use Steel cased ammunition in it. That is all of the PROOF that I need. I follow the manufacturers advice of any product I buy over some internet lore, just the same I expect them to warranty their product if there is a failure.

YOU like steel ammo, YOU are convinced that there is no extra wear on a gun shooting it, YOU shoot steel ammo in your guns. GREAT. Buy all of it you want, and shoot as much as you want in YOUR guns.

But don't try to sell everyone else on that BS, or dismiss anyone else's opinion or what they've experienced or Alptraum's experience while running a shooting range. To me, I've shot it. It's stinky and dirty, so for that reason alone,it's OUT. Just like I won't buy Remington UMC brass ammo for that reason.
 
Posts: 19840 | Registered: June 12, 2005Report This Post
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See alptraum I am calling bullshit. Your story is bullshit. I could provide proof but, but, but. Just like every other internet lore/story/nonsense. People claim something without any evidence and we are just supposed to believe you.

Come on, give us the whole horror story of steel cased ammo wrecking your “high volume rental guns”. Did you keep a rounds log? Did they ONLY shoot Tula and wolf? Got pics? No, no, and no.

A high volume handgun that has shot all brands of ammo, certainly not all steel, by all kinds of users, abused, barely maintained, really that is your story of steel cased woe?

Give me a fucking break. I will “calm down” when you guys show even the slightest evidence. You guys literally sound like every covid Karen out there. You have no proof no evidence but you are just so sure that your info is right. I tell you I’ve shot 10’s of thousands of steel. Zero issues. Through every major brand. I’m working slowly through the last 3 cases of Tula 9mm because matches were all cancelled. I buy 3k roughly every quarter. But forget me. Jljones runs a business in handgun training. He sees guys pouring rounds downrange and says the same thing. Just nicer with less words. But you guys are just soooooo positive it causes damage. Why? Because guys like this thread keep spouting the same bullshit, no proof, no pics, no evidence, and the internet nonsense takes hold.


Jimmy. Go read your owners manual that you treat as gospel. Do you really follow everything they say. If it’s printed in that magic manual do you really obey it? I think not. Do you reload? ‘Cause that’s against the gospel? Do you store it without the lock attached? Ammo nearby? For goodness sake you don’t keep it loaded right? All that is against the gospel of Sig, Ruger, S&W, CZ, etc. Or it’s just lawyer stuff to limit liability and warranty responsibility. You know, the bottom line. I can’t tell if you are being obtuse or just arguing for the sake of argument. I already told you, 7 bucks a box. 123 per thousand round of Tula 9. That’s the number before covid hit and that’s most likely what it will settle back to. Four (4) dollars less than your best posted out of stock ammo. Tell me again about just a few pennies more. Keep repeating it maybe it will end up being believed. Still not true though. Your ammo 11.99 x 20 for a case equals, 240 dollars per case. Tula steel, pre covid and eventually post covid most likely, 123 per thousand. I would say double but they add 16 fir shipping 3 cases and I don’t know what Outdoor World charges, so let’s just say NEARLY double. I hate bullshit. And this is the definition. Keep spouting untruths as fact. “Just pennies more”. That is a lie. It’s just not true.
 
Posts: 2834 | Registered: June 18, 2005Report This Post
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I guess Hornady and Winchester didn't get the memo. Razz Big Grin




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Posts: 12062 | Location: Realville | Registered: June 27, 2006Report This Post
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Originally posted by pedropcola:
See alptraum I am calling bullshit. Your story is bullshit.


You're right, it's all made up bullshit. I'll come clean. At first I posted a quick response and didn't think much of it. I was just sharing some personal experience and thought it may be contributing. And had you asked I almost certainly would have been happy to discuss in more detail. And sure I could have gone into stuff that happened at the very large range over years in some detail. And that while you kept mentioning rental guns I was actually talking about customer guns. Or addressed more of the other inaccurate assumptions you confidently ran with. And that we did log some stuff both for ourselves, and in one case a major manufacturer from Austria (they only wanted info on the first 100,000 rounds in any one pistol). Or that after I left there I went to work for one of the largest small arms manufacturers in the world that's made everything from cheap rimfires to $20,000 custom guns, machine guns, grenade launchers, and all sorts of things in between. I probably would have been happy to discuss things I've learned from my own experience and also from talking to people in R&D and production at numerous small arms and munitions manufactures all over the world and seeing internal studies. Or that I never even said steel cased was horrible and that I also shoot it msyelf in some guns.

But...then I realized it's time to come clean. You're personal experience of tens of thousands of rounds (gosh, that's a lot!) and use of a formidable list of informal and formal logical fallacies has exposed the lie. You're right! It's all bullshit! It's all a LIE! It was only when I really started working in the industry that I was let into this dark secret! You're obstinate yelling of "bullshit" has given me the courage to break the wall of silence. Your use of "covid Karen" was especially sharp and timely! It is one giant conspiracy. There is a secret cabal of the worlds largest firearms manufactures that want you to think they recommend against steel cased ammo for some technical reason. Lies! There was a meeting years ago. Based on a combination of gut feelings, intuition, and things seen on an old usenet chat circa 1992 the conspiracy was formed. You've exposed it all!
 
Posts: 1355 | Location: Kansas City  | Registered: June 06, 2010Report This Post
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That’s a lot of words to say you don’t have even a single picture, any evidence, just your customers story and your impressive resume.

If you don’t like shooting steel cased ammo fine. You think the unburned powder tastes funny, the smoke smells bad, the color of the cases offends your sensibilities, no problem. My problem is guys who don’t shoot the stuff, you, claiming all kinds of problems they have supposedly witnessed. Did you ever take a picture, do an experiment, actually witness it? Nope to all the above. But I run a high volume range and my customer claimed steel ammo damaged his gun. Oh no, he claimed that? But wait, you do shoot the stuff, even knowing the damage it causes.

Like I said I have shot a shit ton of it. Jljones has as well and he runs a high volume shooting business, but YOUR high volume business and experience is the facts. Except even you say you shoot it too. So what is it? Does it damage guns or not? Certainly if you believed it damaged guns you wouldn’t shoot it right? Right?

Oh brother. Stop spreading internet lies. That’s how the dumbass gun store guys get the internet lies that they spread. From dumbass internet stories with no facts to back it up. Anybody have actual evidence steel cased handgun ammo break stuff? Anybody? Or do we just pass along the tales?

Yes, I’m again calling BS.
 
Posts: 2834 | Registered: June 18, 2005Report This Post
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I think it's a Russki plot.
Putin and his steel case ammo own Trump.
If that was not true, then Trump would have stopped the import of the stinky steel ammo and kept Americans using proper American ammo.
And those two American companies would have had a little stern talking to.
 
Posts: 302 | Registered: November 03, 2019Report This Post
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I asked a long time local gunsmith about this a few years back. He said it will absolutely not hurt your firearm any more than brass. I did note that he sold ammo with steel cases and brass cases. I tend to save the steel for someday if I can't get anything else.
 
Posts: 222 | Registered: February 07, 2009Report This Post
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Ranges don't want people to use Steel Ammo mainly because they have a recycler or commercial reloader that pays them for all of the brass they sweep up and then they have to sort out all of the near worthless steel cases



This is not true. A simple magnet would easily sort that stuff out.

Indoor ranges won't let leople shoot steel cased ammo because of the bi-metal bullet they use. Bi-metal bullets will produce a spark on a hard impact. With all the un burned powder there is a chance of fire.
 
Posts: 6850 | Location: Raymore, Missouri | Registered: June 24, 2006Report This Post
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Originally posted by walker77:
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Ranges don't want people to use Steel Ammo mainly because they have a recycler or commercial reloader that pays them for all of the brass they sweep up and then they have to sort out all of the near worthless steel cases



This is not true. A simple magnet would easily sort that stuff out.

Indoor ranges won't let leople shoot steel cased ammo because of the bi-metal bullet they use. Bi-metal bullets will produce a spark on a hard impact. With all the un burned powder there is a chance of fire.



Of course a magnet would sort it, but it's more labor, then what to do with the steel casings, etc. etc. It's more costly for them to pay an employee to sort it, even with a magnet. That's the reason I've heard several ranges give. The ranges around here, simply sweep the brass and dump it in 5 gallon buckets and once a week someone comes by and pays them for it. One of them is an outdoor range, so doubtful on the spark issue with that one. The spark issue is the other valid reason in indoor ranges.
 
Posts: 19840 | Registered: June 12, 2005Report This Post
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