SIGforum
My first foray into the world of pistol RMR's.

This topic can be found at:
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/6950043004

March 21, 2016, 05:27 PM
ASKSmith
My first foray into the world of pistol RMR's.
Agony,

Glock looks badass, but I don't own one. I just bought my son a 22/45, do you have a link for your Primary Arms sight? That's exactly what I want.

BTW, Pens are on FIRE!!!


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I apologize now...
March 21, 2016, 08:09 PM
agony
quote:
Originally posted by ASKSmith:
Agony,

Glock looks badass, but I don't own one. I just bought my son a 22/45, do you have a link for your Primary Arms sight? That's exactly what I want.

BTW, Pens are on FIRE!!!


I'm not sure if it's the same exact sight, but this looks pretty close.
http://www.primaryarms.com/pri...arrs02/p/kt-parrs02/

Oh yeah, Pens are rockin' it late in the season on the playoff run. Just hope they can maintain it.




"You have the right not to be killed..."

The Clash, "Know Your Rights"
March 21, 2016, 08:34 PM
hrcjon
I like the look of this glock, but at some point we need to stop calling them glocks and say 'glock style' guns!
In any case if it helps anyone here's what I've personally learned about running an RMR on a Glock (and originally an FNP) over quite a few rounds now. I've shot it extensively in competition and used it for personal daily carry (I live on a farm so the latter really means I've used it to shoot pests day and night).
- The best RMR I've found for all around use is the RM07. Being able to adjust the dot intensity is a huge plus. But of course for pure defensive work that may not be possible so that's a tradeoff. The auto feature is not mature and doesn't cope well FWIW. If a battery operated adjustable one won't work for you, you want the RM04. Don't expect either to be perfect in many lighting conditions. You absolutely will need to have a set of backup irons with tritium (for serious uses), or just backup irons if its a range gun. The 13moa dot is too big for ranges 10-35y shooting normal scoring targets and the 3 and 1moa dots are too small for quick work with a pistol.
- The triangles sound good, but don't work well. You and your brain will be faster with a circular dot,especially if your targets are circles and squares and the idea of using the tip of the triangle for a real long shot doesn't work for me.
- the orange's do better than the greens. Especially low light and at night (which is when I most often use a personal firearm outside of competition). Neither is as good as the red in competition. In very low light the dual illuminated version is stunning as you don't have the bloom you can get with the dot.
- the height over bore issue mentioned really isn't an issue, if you can get backup irons to work the height is fine. I've never even noticed the difference between adapter plate setups and direct milling. Competition guys often run much higher optics just fine and anyone who runs an AR understands its pretty easy to adapt.
I have found I am still slower in an initial shot from a holster with the dot, but faster after that, and way more accurate, especially at distance.
All FWIW>


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
March 22, 2016, 07:54 AM
stormwalker
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
For small red dots, also consider the Vortex Venom - it takes the same mount plate as the Burris FF3, and looking at them both I'm quite certain they are made in the same factory but the Venom window is a little larger.


The Vortex Venom and Leupold Deltapoint Pro will not co-witness; unfortunately, the Vortex Viper and Leupold Deltapoint are discontinued.
March 22, 2016, 10:32 AM
stormwalker
quote:
Originally posted by agony:


Finally! After a long wait I found a Trijicon RM07 in FDE with the 6.5MOA dot.

Initial thoughts after I installed it. This thing is teeny tiny. The window is much smaller than either the Burris Fastfire 2 and 3 that I’ve used on rifle builds in the past. The bluish tint on the window seemed really distracting, and the distortion of the glass was off-putting. Finding the dot during dry practice was a bit frustrating at first, and I naturally had to adjust my stance to accommodate the higher sight picture. I realized that I’ve shot irons for so long that it was quite hard for this red dot thing to come naturally, and it may take a few more months for it to come quickly. I also second-guessed my choice in dot size, thinking that the 6.5 was a bit too big and blobby especially at bright settings, and should’ve gone with the 3.5moa instead. I was beginning to regret not only purchasing the Trijicon but also the whole build.


The bluish tint does an excellent job preventing the red dot from washing-out when using a weapons light. My Deltapoint is useless indoors while running a light.
March 22, 2016, 11:16 AM
VictimNoMore
quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
Competition guys often run much higher optics just fine and anyone who runs an AR understands its pretty easy to adapt.
I have found I am still slower in an initial shot from a holster with the dot, but faster after that, and way more accurate, especially at distance.


This is quality information.
Thank you.
March 22, 2016, 12:17 PM
murray
Great post


Murray
"No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he is vigilant in its preservation" General Douglas MacArthur
March 22, 2016, 07:30 PM
agony
quote:
Originally posted by stormwalker:

The bluish tint does an excellent job preventing the red dot from washing-out when using a weapons light. My Deltapoint is useless indoors while running a light.


Good info, thanks. I did run the gun in complete darkness with the X300 and the red dot didn't wash out at all. I'll have to compare it with a different red dot that doesn't have the blue tint to tell the difference.




"You have the right not to be killed..."

The Clash, "Know Your Rights"
March 23, 2016, 08:32 PM
ksss
I have been carrying an FDE RMR 07 on a FNX .45T for duty/SWAT for about 6 months. It has taken some time to adapt to the dot in all conditions but over all I think it is an advantage, especially on multiple targets. I find myself sometimes searching for the dot upon drawing from the holster, however if I go to the irons first like normal the dot is there. It C/W's with the dot sitting on top of my front sight post. The tint sometimes does hinder using the irons. You don't want to run your gun any wetter than needed as at least with the FNX, I get clp splattering on the RMR.
March 24, 2016, 07:12 PM
agony
quote:
Originally posted by ksss:
I have been carrying an FDE RMR 07 on a FNX .45T for duty/SWAT for about 6 months. It has taken some time to adapt to the dot in all conditions but over all I think it is an advantage, especially on multiple targets. I find myself sometimes searching for the dot upon drawing from the holster, however if I go to the irons first like normal the dot is there. It C/W's with the dot sitting on top of my front sight post. The tint sometimes does hinder using the irons. You don't want to run your gun any wetter than needed as at least with the FNX, I get clp splattering on the RMR.


That's awesome, glad to hear from the good folks in harm's way carrying handguns with red dots. Do you qualify with it also?




"You have the right not to be killed..."

The Clash, "Know Your Rights"
March 24, 2016, 10:54 PM
hrcjon
This is a tiny add to my earlier posts. If you run an RMR you need to be able to clean it. Nothing like an aimpoint on an AR where that is simply not an issue. The post above about one on an FNX is the tip of the iceberg. Maybe 500 rds on my FN and its unusable, but the Glock is worse. Maybe 200 rds. and you need to deal with the mess or you can't see.
Not that it adds anything to why I like them, but you will need to have some tools around for this issue.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
March 25, 2016, 01:56 AM
Mainspring
quote:
I have found I am still slower in an initial shot from a holster with the dot, but faster after that, and way more accurate, especially at distance.


The last several handgun classes I've attended have all had at least a couple people running RMRs. The comment above is one that I've heard almost uniformly.

As someone else mentioned, it sounds like if you get used to initially looking through your irons, then the dot will just "be there".

I have only taken a few shots with pistols sporting RMRs, but they seem to work well after people have adapted to them. I'm seriously considering picking up another G19 and getting the slide milled.
March 25, 2016, 04:12 AM
mrmn50
At my age, I could not consider such a build. Yet, I have been all over the internet trying to put a price tag on it. Smile
March 25, 2016, 08:46 AM
soggy_spinout
Neat looking build. More than I'd ever do, but that's the nature of the Glock universe. The AR--as well as AK--of handguns.
March 25, 2016, 09:37 PM
Mainspring
By the way I just want to say that agony's threads are something special. Two of my favorites on this forum are this one and the one in "The Essential Edge" where he put some new scales on a knife.

I really appreciate the solid photography, detailed descriptions, and explanations about why specific choices were made along the way.

This one did not disappoint!
March 26, 2016, 06:39 PM
agony
That's very kind to say, I appreciate it.
It gets lonely here in WV, and my wife doesn't care about my little projects. Glad you all have an ear to lend.




"You have the right not to be killed..."

The Clash, "Know Your Rights"
March 26, 2016, 07:03 PM
tenmm
That is a fine looking piece of hardware!


_______________________________________
Do you only play? Or can you shoot too?
March 28, 2016, 04:15 PM
agony
update:
Shot 500 rds through it on Saturday, and just got back from a quick range trip today with 400 more down the tube. Total of 2k rounds since starting this project, of which 1,400 were with the RMR attached. No malfunctions yet. I only ran 115gr standard pressure loads through it today. The screws holding the RMR in as well as the single screw holding in the Unity slide adapter are still nice and snug...no movement. RMR seems to be holding zero.
No ejection issues.

Trigger is getting even smoother with use. Can't say enough about how great the Overwatch Precision trigger is compared to the competition.

Slide finish holding up well, the initial bright spots haven't changed. We'll see how it goes whenever the new holster arrives.

I'll shoot it suppressed on Friday...need to make a batch of 147gr subsonics for it this week.

The barrel accuracy remains impressive, however I still need to MacGyver a washer to limit the thread depth for the suppressor. I did have to add an o-ring to the thread protector to keep it from loosening while shooting.




"You have the right not to be killed..."

The Clash, "Know Your Rights"
March 29, 2016, 01:40 AM
threefeathers
I've gone through much of the struggle you have. I chose to use a M&P CORE instead. I took the Suarez course on using the optic (I chose the same as you) and Gabes drills really help. Basically concentrate on finding the sights as normal and darned if the dot isn't there also. This has become one of my EDC guns.


Scouts Out
April 02, 2016, 11:04 AM
agony
quote:
Originally posted by threefeathers:
I've gone through much of the struggle you have. I chose to use a M&P CORE instead. I took the Suarez course on using the optic (I chose the same as you) and Gabes drills really help. Basically concentrate on finding the sights as normal and darned if the dot isn't there also. This has become one of my EDC guns.


I'm looking to do an RMR course later this year. One of my friends shoots his RMR exclusively over the past few years and gave me a handful of drills to practice. So far it's going really well.

Round count is now at 2,257 (yeah I'm a little ocd). Hopefully I'll get to shoot again tomorrow.

After several range trips and a lot of dry practice regularly, obtaining the dot has become reflexive. It's now as quick if not quicker than obtaining a good sight picture with irons. The gun is holding zero very well. Transition shots from contact distance to 25 yards then back to 3 yds is very quick with good hits all day long. Using the RMR as a 'handle' to rack the slide is a bonus, BUT that pesky rear iron sight is a little sharp and I've already cut my hand on it. I may have to remedy this with a dremel to smooth the front edges.






"You have the right not to be killed..."

The Clash, "Know Your Rights"