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posted
I just saw this announcement yesterday:


http://www.apextactical.com/bl...iggers-for-sig-p320/
 
Posts: 32 | Registered: April 11, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of az4783054
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Wonder if they copied the GRAYGUNS design?


****************************
I would support President Trump selecting Barack as the next ambassador to Afghanistan...and Hillary to Syria.


 
Posts: 7619 | Location: Somewhere north of a hot humid hell in the summer. | Registered: January 09, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of mrtuna
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quote:
Originally posted by az4783054:
Wonder if they copied the GRAYGUNS design?


Too much professional respect for this to happen. I actually saw Randy Lee and Bruce Gray having a conversation at Shot I smiled to myself knowing that they were talking shop. They have worked together in the past and are most likely friends so there's not going to be any design infringements.


Training as often as possible!
NSSF Media Member


 
Posts: 1575 | Location: Las Vegas, NV | Registered: May 31, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of yanici
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I saw that new trigger video too. I'm curious if the trigger makes for a longer pull and if the reset is the same. Since I have small hands, I was also concerned on whether the trigger will sit further forward or not.

Does anyone think that the flat trigger sits further forward than the curved one as far as how you grip the gun and hold the trigger?

I have the same concerns with GRAYGUNS upgrade. I will be buying one or the other.


John

'Technically, It Is Not Illegal To Be Illegal In Massachusetts' ...MA Att. Gen. Martha Coakley
 
Posts: 1694 | Location: N.E. Massachusetts | Registered: June 05, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have both the original apex and the gg pelt trigger. The one thing that I don't particularly like about the gg trigger is that it pretty much removes the audible click at reset. While minor, I like the audible reset. I also prefer the apex actual trigger face and feel vs the gg trigger. Again minor and subjective. I'll probably get the apex and give it a try. Price seems decent.
 
Posts: 111 | Registered: May 16, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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Looks like these Apex triggers have the "adverse trigger" protrusion above the trigger face too.

The Gray Guns triggers don't, and neither do the earlier Apex P320 triggers.
 
Posts: 18180 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have gray guns it's great .
 
Posts: 614 | Location: GA | Registered: September 03, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I pre-ordered the Apex Curved Advanced Trigger last week from Midway USA. I just received notice that it shipped. I'll post a review once I get it installed.


------------------------------
"They who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause."
- Senator Amidala (Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith)
 
Posts: 844 | Location: Southwest Ohio | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just ordered the Apex flat when I saw it was available at M-USA. Thanks for the heads up!


_____________________________________________________________________
The odds will be what the odds will be + "Send it"
امّا شما مشخص خواهد شد كه با همه شما را ملاقات کنند
 
Posts: 9827 | Location: Carolina but Texas in my heart | Registered: November 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Giftedly Outspoken
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I have the original Apex flat trigger in one of my 320's, and the new Apex flat trigger (2lb less pull) in another of my 320's.

Both are great but I really don't notice much difference in trigger weight with the new one.

I do prefer the flat trigger over the stock one. Much better feel to me.



Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six
 
Posts: 3092 | Location: SouthCentral PA | Registered: December 05, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Behold my
Radiance!
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Draggun:
I have both the original apex and the gg pelt trigger. The one thing that I don't particularly like about the gg trigger is that it pretty much removes the audible click at reset. While minor, I like the audible reset. I also prefer the apex actual trigger face and feel vs the gg trigger. Again minor and subjective. I'll probably get the apex and give it a try. Price seems decent.


Hi! I assume by now you have tried Brand X, and can offer an informed comparison? Please try our PELT with the factory spring. I bet you'll find that our trigger provides better reset, and somewhat shorter travel at a comparable pull weight. There are reasons why.

-Bruce


Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms. Now: Get some Lucas Extreme Duty Grease from Top Gun Supply and SIG Pro Shop, dammit! And remember: MOAC is coming again in 2017!



Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistols.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 541-468-3840
 
Posts: 9257 | Location: GGI's Secret Volcano Base near Spray, and Bruce's R&D custom shop in Reedsport, Oregon | Registered: October 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Behold my
Radiance!
Picture of Grayguns
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Looks like these Apex triggers have the "adverse trigger" protrusion above the trigger face too.

The Gray Guns triggers don't, and neither do the earlier Apex P320 triggers.


A couple years of actual testing indicates that tbe "adverse trigger" features are meaningless at the pull weights we achieve. Why copy something that does nothing, and which many users object to?

-Bruce


Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms. Now: Get some Lucas Extreme Duty Grease from Top Gun Supply and SIG Pro Shop, dammit! And remember: MOAC is coming again in 2017!



Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistols.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 541-468-3840
 
Posts: 9257 | Location: GGI's Secret Volcano Base near Spray, and Bruce's R&D custom shop in Reedsport, Oregon | Registered: October 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Behold my
Radiance!
Picture of Grayguns
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by yanici:
I saw that new trigger video too. I'm curious if the trigger makes for a longer pull and if the reset is the same. Since I have small hands, I was also concerned on whether the trigger will sit further forward or not.

Does anyone think that the flat trigger sits further forward than the curved one as far as how you grip the gun and hold the trigger?

I have the same concerns with GRAYGUNS upgrade. I will be buying one or the other.


Hi! I can speak for our designs, since we originated them at great expense, and with great care for nuance and details.

Our PELT triggers are dimensioned to fit the great majority of FCU's optimally. That fit of axle to FCU is crucial to reliability, and to obtaining minimal possible pre-and-after travel. To get there, Grayguns holds our triggers to extremely close tolerances, at dimensions which fall within tbe high median range of factory tolerances for the surfaces and release points it must function in.

For that reason, about 3% of our customer's FCU's do not accept our standard trigger. For them,
we offer alternative/fit variants, backed by our dedicated CS Crew.

It would be easier and way cheaper to make a "small" trigger that fits every frame, but that necessarily comes at the expense of optimal trigger feel and net travel performance for a large percentage of our clients. Our experience and unparalleled knowledge of the P320 says a sloppy trigger won't work well enough, and certainly won't justify our lifetime guarantee.

The one thing that can't be imitated is that experience, which makes it all work the way we designed it to.

Thanks for letting me explain here.

-Bruce

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Grayguns,


Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms. Now: Get some Lucas Extreme Duty Grease from Top Gun Supply and SIG Pro Shop, dammit! And remember: MOAC is coming again in 2017!



Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistols.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 541-468-3840
 
Posts: 9257 | Location: GGI's Secret Volcano Base near Spray, and Bruce's R&D custom shop in Reedsport, Oregon | Registered: October 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Behold my
Radiance!
Picture of Grayguns
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mrtuna:
quote:
Originally posted by az4783054:
Wonder if they copied the GRAYGUNS design?


Too much professional respect for this to happen. I actually saw Randy Lee and Bruce Gray having a conversation at Shot I smiled to myself knowing that they were talking shop. They have worked together in the past and are most likely friends so there's not going to be any design infringements.


Our enhanced-leverage concept is described in our patent application, and we were not consulted.

It is what it is.

-Bruce


Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms. Now: Get some Lucas Extreme Duty Grease from Top Gun Supply and SIG Pro Shop, dammit! And remember: MOAC is coming again in 2017!



Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistols.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 541-468-3840
 
Posts: 9257 | Location: GGI's Secret Volcano Base near Spray, and Bruce's R&D custom shop in Reedsport, Oregon | Registered: October 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks Bruce for your informations, it's a pleasure to have someone like you on this forum!
 
Posts: 381 | Registered: November 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of az4783054
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Ahhh Bruce...

"...backed by our deficated CS Crew."


****************************
I would support President Trump selecting Barack as the next ambassador to Afghanistan...and Hillary to Syria.


 
Posts: 7619 | Location: Somewhere north of a hot humid hell in the summer. | Registered: January 09, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I am not
Picture of Ronin101
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yep..we do appreciate your contributions to the shooting community and the discussion on the forum. I will be getting your trigger in the future!!
 
Posts: 6294 | Location: Bismarck ND | Registered: February 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Behold my
Radiance!
Picture of Grayguns
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by az4783054:
Ahhh Bruce...

"...backed by our deficated CS Crew."


Whoops.


Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms. Now: Get some Lucas Extreme Duty Grease from Top Gun Supply and SIG Pro Shop, dammit! And remember: MOAC is coming again in 2017!



Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistols.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 541-468-3840
 
Posts: 9257 | Location: GGI's Secret Volcano Base near Spray, and Bruce's R&D custom shop in Reedsport, Oregon | Registered: October 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Behold my
Radiance!
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quote:
Originally posted by toto:
Thanks Bruce for your informations, it's a pleasure to have someone like you on this forum!


Thank you! The privilege is really mine. The fact is, without Sigforum and Para, there would be no Grayguns. We never would have taken care of multiple thousands of our customers (while Andre'and maybe ten other guys would have not been kept waiting for their sick gunsmith to finish their art pieces). P220-10's and Legions and a bunch of other cool SIG and Grayguns products never would have happened as they did. 20 good people would not have the cool jobs and benefits they now enjoy.

And I wouldn't have made many wonderful friends.

It's been hard on us but I'm grateful, and wouldn't take a bit of it all back.

-Bruce


Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms. Now: Get some Lucas Extreme Duty Grease from Top Gun Supply and SIG Pro Shop, dammit! And remember: MOAC is coming again in 2017!



Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistols.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 541-468-3840
 
Posts: 9257 | Location: GGI's Secret Volcano Base near Spray, and Bruce's R&D custom shop in Reedsport, Oregon | Registered: October 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I received my Apex Curved Advanced Trigger today. The first thing I noticed is that there is almost no bevel to the edged of the trigger, so it feels a bit wider than either the factory or Gray Guns trigger. I also noticed that the curve is not as pronounced as the curve on the other two triggers.

Next, I measured the length of trigger from the bottom of the "axle" to the top of the pin that engages the trigger bar. The factory trigger measured .6225 inches. The Gray Guns trigger measured .5365 inches, and the Apex trigger was in between, at .5690 inches. With this data, I anticipated that the Apex trigger would have a pull weight somewhere between the other two triggers.

Installing the trigger was easy, as would be expected on the P320. I don't have a trigger gauge, so I'm going by feel, but the pull weight did appear to be in between the other two. I did not notice any slop, grit, or other undesirable aspects.

I did try the Gray Guns trigger and liked it, but I had some reliability issues with it not resetting on my particular P320, and it felt a bit too light for me to comfortably carry. I need to confirm my initial impressions with some range time, but I think this will be my P320 trigger of choice.



------------------------------
"They who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause."
- Senator Amidala (Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith)
 
Posts: 844 | Location: Southwest Ohio | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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