quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:


Well, of course in a bureaucracy as large and bloated as the USFS, that is technically true, but I think it is still USFS policy to require all work teams in Alaskan* bear country to have at least one member armed. I think they have shotguns w/ slugs are made available...Remington 870's?

Somebody here with better typing skills than me might be able to locate the policy spec.

* Given a little bit of time, the same might be required here as the range of these Lower 48 vermin expands.

I've been involved with forestry operations for a long time now (on a USFS contract assignment at the moment, actually); while the thread specifically excludes Alaska as identified by the original poster, forestry personnel in the lower 48 are not armed except or credentialed law enforcement.

Fire crews carry pulaskis, not glocks.

Whatever.

The issue is, black bear aren't a big deal. Grizzly are. Where grizzly are common, so is the USFS requirement. For that matter, I suppose, give us a few more years in the upper Rockies and that requirement might change.

What state are you in?

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
Whatever.

The issue is, black bear aren't a big deal. Grizzly are. Where grizzly are common, so is the USFS requirement. For that matter, I suppose, give us a few more years in the upper Rockies and that requirement might change.

What state are you in?

Ditto. The 8 black bear encounters I had, they were mostly loners with one exception of a mama with 2 cubs. They were smallish, very non-threatening. Smallish enough that I had thought that a large dude can handle them bare hands. Only 1 was a somewhat larger male I ran across on the Appalachian trail.

Never had to shoot one, never felt threatened. I was comfortable with their presence and felt comfortable with my spray and 9mm.

quote:

Originally posted by saigonsmuggler:

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
Whatever.

The issue is, black bear aren't a big deal. Grizzly are. Where grizzly are common, so is the USFS requirement. For that matter, I suppose, give us a few more years in the upper Rockies and that requirement might change.

What state are you in?

Ditto. The 8 black bear encounters I had, they were mostly loners with one exception of a mama with 2 cubs. They were smallish, very non-threatening. Smallish enough that I had thought that a large dude can handle them bare hands. Only 1 was a somewhat larger male I ran across on the Appalachian trail.

Never had to shoot one, never felt threatened. I was comfortable with their presence and felt comfortable with my spray and 9mm.

Bear are immensely powerful. Staggeringly so.

And they have shocking wind.

For example, mountain lion have no lungs. A race with them is normally less than a half hour and they tree. Many guys carry .22 Magnum revolvers or other pistols to kill them from trees.

Whereas bear will commonly run all day, literally, and wear out a pack with fresh dogs tossed in. It has to be seen to be believed. They LOOK like they couldn't walk across the street without a break to catch their breath, but in reality, they are fantastically enduring. I've seen them fight a large pack of dogs and keep running all day and plumb run away from the pack, leaving the dogs dragging. Some will fight dogs, tree, jump tree, run, fight, etc and not stop. It can be total bedlam.

Our bear here are small, and average 165 lbs. It seems the smaller bear are often the gamiest and the worse fighters. And they are incredibly tough. One I shot with a .45-70 thru the chest fell about 30 feet from a tree, hit the ground and came up after the hounds that were tied off a little distance away and took another 2 shots to anchor.

The thing is, UNprovoked black bear are very rarely dangerous. They CAN be, but that is very uncommon.

Eastern black bear can be quite large by the way, in the ballpark of 400 pounds.

Having said all that, mountain lion where they are not hunted can be dangerous. Those in California can attest to the evening news reports. I have several friends who have been stalked by lion and know 2 who shot them while the lion were in the act of starting a rush. But on the whole our lion seem wary enough.

We also have wolves which are a big problem to dogs, killing them commonly. I have a number of friends who have lost numbers of hounds to wolves. Wolves were once a great threat to people ad have killed large numbers of people in Europe and India, but as people in the USA, especially children, no longer walk alone, wolves are not a big threat. I am concerned about them myself as I cross country ski great distances alone. But I do not fit the general parameters of those most at risk, being a man substantially over 5 feet tall, tho I know of a few guys who have been threatened by wolves, one of whom spent a long time in a tree with a pack underneath him. But a pack of 10 or so wolves would be a real threat, and can and have killed ANYTHING in the woods, grizzly included, so I like a high capacity pistol with lots of spare ammo. Just in case. I am often a long way away from home in bad weather in the winter. I have had them follow my ski tracks and that alone is enough to get my attention.

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:


What state are you in?

Right now? Why?

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:


What state are you in?

Right now? Why?

Just curious where you work for the USFS.

Also, what "forestry operations" do you do for the USFS? Really curious about that. you can PM me if you like.

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:


What state are you in?

Right now? Why?

Just curious where you work for the USFS.

I work wherever I am assigned. Most recently Northerm California and Oregon, though this time of year, all over the west. I am not employed by the USFS. I do a lot of work for them, though. And a number of other state and federal agencies.

Most of the time when I'm associated with a forest, its on fire.

An associate encountered a mountain lion just a few days ago in a nearby forest. The puma was in pursuit of a deer.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:


What state are you in?

Right now? Why?

Just curious where you work for the USFS.

I work wherever I am assigned. Most recently Northerm California and Oregon, though this time of year, all over the west. I am not employed by the USFS. I do a lot of work for them, though. And a number of other state and federal agencies.

Most of the time when I'm associated with a forest, its on fire.

An associate encountered a mountain lion just a few days ago in a nearby forest. The puma was in pursuit of a deer.

Gotcha. Interesting. My son fought fire down there near Happy Camp and in the Siskiyou forest some years ago.

We haven't had a legitmate USFS commercial timber sale from FS lands in our region in many years. ALL are litigated and the FS then walks away from the sale without complying. It's a scandal of immense proportions and we desperately need the Trump Admin to make some significant changes...

Sorry for the derail, OP.

Back to Bear Protection...

Not black bears and not arizona, but interesting run down of fatal bear encounters, all the same.

http://www.greatfallstribune.c...encounters/87018738/

I just watched a bizarre show on Animal Planet.
I was Prey is the name of the show.
Scenario:
Dude is sitting on the porch of a small cabin in woodsy Canada. German Shepard beside him. Black Bear charges out the brush into the cabin yard. Dog and Bear engage. Dog loses and is dragged from yard. While Bear and Dog fight, Dude retreats into cabin. Bear returns to cabin and forces entry. Dude exits cabin and runs for a neighbors home. Bear pursues and catches him in the roadway. Bear then munches on the Dude until two chicks in a pickup happen by and spook the Bear.
Dog dies. Dude is seriously munched, with lots of surgery, stiches (300+) and years of rehab.
The story irritated me no end. I wanted to scream "Hey Stupid, moving to the Canuck wilderness without a shotgun was your plan"? "How's your dog feel about that"?
I felt bad for the dog.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Not black bears and not arizona, but interesting run down of fatal bear encounters, all the same.

http://www.greatfallstribune.c...encounters/87018738/

That was a really good photo lineup. Kind of slow and clunky, but the pictures were great. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I wanted to scream "Hey Stupid, moving to the Canuck wilderness without a shotgun was your plan"? "How's your dog feel about that"?
I felt bad for the dog.

Dogs show uncommon loyalty. I often wonder if they realize how stupid their humans are. Regardless, they stick with the guy as long as he doesn't beat it and he does feed it. As for the lack of a gun of any kind, I just assume he was a liberal.

As Captain of my neighborhood watch and designated sniper for the same, having logged hundreds of hours in internet training, firearms, hand to hand combat and the like and having logged in over 1,000 hours on patrol I feel that I am imminently qualified to help the OP and many of you less experienced folk out there. Contrary to many suggestions I would recommend a Ruger 10/22 with the excellent B-25 mags with screaming hollow points. When charged by a bear, black or Grizzley, doesn't matter, they do not like being hit in the nose! I would pop them a few times in the nose and then shoot them in their front paws. They do not like to run with sore feet! Well, I don't want to confuse anyone with more details but I am available for questions should some of our less experienced members need further advice.

quote:

Originally posted by Sharptop:
As Captain of my neighborhood watch and designated sniper for the same, having logged hundreds of hours in internet training, firearms, hand to hand combat and the like and having logged in over 1,000 hours on patrol I feel that I am imminently qualified to help the OP and many of you less experienced folk out there. Contrary to many suggestions I would recommend a Ruger 10/22 with the excellent B-25 mags with screaming hollow points. When charged by a bear, black or Grizzley, doesn't matter, they do not like being hit in the nose! I would pop them a few times in the nose and then shoot them in their front paws. They do not like to run with sore feet! Well, I don't want to confuse anyone with more details but I am available for questions should some of our less experienced members need further advice.

Why not rear paws?

I'm thinking they get most of their drive from the rear, so why not annoy that, first?

Oh, sorry...

The front ones are in the way.

Got it.

Carry on.

Okay, I'll be sure to ask the bear to hold still first, then clean out his (or her) sinuses.

quote:

Originally posted by Sharptop:
As Captain of my neighborhood watch and designated sniper for the same, having logged hundreds of hours in internet training, firearms, hand to hand combat and the like and having logged in over 1,000 hours on patrol I feel that I am imminently qualified to help the OP and many of you less experienced folk out there. Contrary to many suggestions I would recommend a Ruger 10/22 with the excellent B-25 mags with screaming hollow points. When charged by a bear, black or Grizzley, doesn't matter, they do not like being hit in the nose! I would pop them a few times in the nose and then shoot them in their front paws. They do not like to run with sore feet! Well, I don't want to confuse anyone with more details but I am available for questions should some of our less experienced members need further advice.

I'm in AWE. You basically lurk for 3+ years and then pop in here and lay this one on us...
Amazing. What are your thoughts on signaling fighter jets ? Meteorites ? Large Malls ?

quote:

Originally posted by SBrooks:

quote:

Originally posted by Sharptop:
As Captain of my neighborhood watch and designated sniper for the same, having logged hundreds of hours in internet training, firearms, hand to hand combat and the like and having logged in over 1,000 hours on patrol I feel that I am imminently qualified to help the OP and many of you less experienced folk out there. Contrary to many suggestions I would recommend a Ruger 10/22 with the excellent B-25 mags with screaming hollow points. When charged by a bear, black or Grizzley, doesn't matter, they do not like being hit in the nose! I would pop them a few times in the nose and then shoot them in their front paws. They do not like to run with sore feet! Well, I don't want to confuse anyone with more details but I am available for questions should some of our less experienced members need further advice.

I'm in AWE. You basically lurk for 3+ years and then pop in here and lay this one on us...
Amazing. What are your thoughts on signaling fighter jets ? Meteorites ? Large Malls ?

I want to know about Large Malls!

{Masterful post, by the way, Sharptop!

...A classic..."having logged hundreds of hours in internet training, firearms, hand to hand combat and the like and having logged in over 1,000 hours on patrol I feel that I am imminently qualified..."}

Maybe I should have said "protecting large malls" or protecting "one of America’s largest indoor retail shopping areas."

http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

Whose troll-y account is that, I wonder. ^

Pretty hilarious, in any case.

Gecko would be proud.

S&W 629 Classic in 44 Magnum, 6.5" barrel. I bought it to hunt deer with, but in a pinch with the right loads (not the easy to find 240 gr. JSP loads), should be fine. But then, we have no grizzlies or browns or polar bears in VA.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Not black bears and not arizona, but interesting run down of fatal bear encounters, all the same.

http://www.greatfallstribune.c...encounters/87018738/

Oy. So the tent ends up mimicking the act of peeling of the wrapper off of a microwave burrito. How very comforting. You know, bringing along a SAM7 SBR with a Bumpfire stock no longer seems all that ludicrous. Just sayin'; I mean the AK-47 is the poor man poacher's tool of choice the world over.

However knowing me, I'd forget to turn off the damn safety.