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So I figured out why my Colt Vest Pocket is having light primer strikes. (Update 9 Nov) Login/Join 
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So... I posted a few weeks ago about this little guy and the light primer strikes it was having. After a little digging, I think I have figured out why. The gun was advertised as an original Colt Vest Pocket. Lies. It is a parts gun. The slide is from the first two years of production, the frame is from a gun 24 years later. The first guns did not have the Pony on the rear of the slide. There is also a serial number engraved inside the slide showing the year of production. It is different than the frame.

Long story short, the slide does not fit flush with the rear of the frame. This is causing the striker to barely touch the primer as it has further to travel. I feel it is quite plausible that Colt may have made slight changes over the years in frames and slides leading to my situation. I have been buying, selling, and trading guns for 30 years and this is the first time I have gotten a bad one.

If you know something that I don’t which may fix the issue, I am all ears.

How it should look with me retracting the slide a bit.




How it looks with slide in battery.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: usncorpsman,
 
Posts: 1097 | Location: Orange Park, FL. | Registered: November 26, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That sucks. I have no help for you other than to caution against trying to lengthen the striker too much, because as you probably know, it acts as the ejector in these pistols. Be very gentle if you ever need to unload/rack a live round out.


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Posts: 3188 | Registered: February 27, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 1KPerDay:
That sucks. I have no help for you other than to caution against trying to lengthen the striker too much, because as you probably know, it acts as the ejector in these pistols. Be very gentle if you ever need to unload/rack a live round out.


Well that's an interesting piece of information. This is why I like looking at threads about guns I know nothing about...you never know what you're going to learn! That's an innovative design concept...I'd think not so ideal from a safety perspective, although I can't imagine it's any worse than the free-floating firing pin of an AR dimpling the primer every time you drop the bolt on a live round.
 
Posts: 8419 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So when in battery the slide is too far FORWARD on the frame? I'm not certain how this would result in a light primer strike unless you have a weak striker spring. Any chance the striker has a broken tip?

Also, are you using factory ammo? Any chance of a picture of the gun with a round chambered? Curious if the slide still moves too far forward.

Regardless, you definitely have a parts gun. Hope you did not pay for a collector-grade pistol.



"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater
 
Posts: 1971 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: February 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This post got my interest so I pulled out my Colt. The slide frame fit is perfectly smooth like it was polished while fitted. It's difficult to see in your photos, but was both the slide and frame polished and refinished? The barrel is retained with an interrupted thread and limits the forward movement of the slide. If you can, you might try a different barrel to see if that will move the slide to the rear.
 
Posts: 237 | Location: PA | Registered: January 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by TooTech:
So when in battery the slide is too far FORWARD on the frame? I'm not certain how this would result in a light primer strike unless you have a weak striker spring. Any chance the striker has a broken tip?

Also, are you using factory ammo? Any chance of a picture of the gun with a round chambered? Curious if the slide still moves too far forward.

Regardless, you definitely have a parts gun. Hope you did not pay for a collector-grade pistol.


Yes, when the gun is in battery, the slide is too far forward. I’m no engineer and may be wrong, but no matter how strong the striker spring is, if the slide is more forward, then that primer is more forward as well. The spring is going to reach the end of its travel resulting in the light primer strike. If the slide was more to the rear, it would strike the primer sooner and before reaching the end of forward travel.

I purchased a new reproduction barrel from In Lead We Trust. I installed it Saturday. It fit well and functioned well, but the light primer strikes are still there, so the new barrel did not close the gap. My new Wolf spring kit should be in tomorrow. If that does not work, I have no other ideas but finding a slide from the same period as the frame and hoping they line up.

Here are a few pics of the gun loaded with a round in the barrel and one without. As you can see, there is no difference.





 
Posts: 1097 | Location: Orange Park, FL. | Registered: November 26, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Got mine out of the safe to look at it. By serial number it was manufactured in 1909 and the slide and frame are flush. Haven't had a chance to take it to the range yet. Will be after the first of the year as I have surgery coming up in 2 weeks which will prevent me from going sooner.
 
Posts: 1756 | Location: The Backyard of Nowhere | Registered: August 09, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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By no means a smith, but what about replacing the firing pin with one just a tad longer... even having one machined for that purpose?


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Posts: 4441 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Blume9mm:
By no means a smith, but what about replacing the firing pin with one just a tad longer... even having one machined for that purpose?


The striker works as an ejector in these little guns. You run the risk of setting a round off when ejecting a live round if the striker is too long. A slide from the same era as the frame may fix the issue.
 
Posts: 1097 | Location: Orange Park, FL. | Registered: November 26, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hmmm. Sorry if I missed it, but has this pistol EVER fired during the time you've owned it? If so, how did the spent case look?

Any chance you take the slide off and observe the distance the firing pin protrudes out through the firing pin hole in the slide. Does it look "adequate"? While you're at it, move the striker back and forth in its channel - any roughness that might indicate the presence of dirt?

I'm not convinced the slide fit is what's getting you the light strikes. If the slide was not moving all the way forward then the cartridge would not be fully chambered. With the case unsupported you would get a bulge in the case, or even a KABOOM. My recollection on this type of pistol is that the ONLY thing stopping the slide from moving forward is when the breech face of the slide contacts the rear of the chamber on the barrel. Your statement that the slide being "more forward" means that the primer is also too far forward is only true IF the cartridge is headspacing on the extractor, and not on the shoulder inside the chamber of the barrel.

Your striker does not appear to be broken, so I'm going with a weak striker spring, or dirt in the striker channel (scrub out the striker channel with a brass bore brush of appropriate size). My alternative is a poorly fit extractor that is interfering with the complete chambering of a round. Check by pulling the barrel and making certain a cartridge drops all the way into the chamber without the cartridge hanging up. Also closely inspect the end of the extractor and its recess in the barrel. Any scuffs or marks on the extractor or recess that might indicate that the extractor is not cleanly sliding into the barrel recess?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TooTech,



"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater
 
Posts: 1971 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: February 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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TooTech, you may be right. Someone at the factory cut back the sear, since the slide sits so far forward, and the spring is already partially extended, so perhaps the spring replacement will get it running again.
 
Posts: 51 | Registered: August 22, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Intrigued by the way that the slide sits too far forward. I don't think it should stop the gun from firing, but can't figure out why the slide is in this forward position.

My understanding is that the slide stops moving forward when it contacts the back of the chamber on the barrel. The barrel has lugs on the underside that connect to lugs in the frame. So the only way I can see for the slide to be too far forward is if the position of the lugs on the barrel or on the frame are of the wrong dimension.

You've replaced the barrel so by my reasoning the frame is the problem.

Do you know for certain that the frame is from Colt? Could it be manufactured in Belgium by Fabrique Nationale? How closely do the lugs on the bottom of the barrel connect with the lugs in the frame?

At this point I'd try and return it to the seller or part it out.



"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater
 
Posts: 1971 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: February 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Update:

I installed the 1908 Vest Pocket Wolf spring kit. That still did not close the gap. It also made the gun hard as hell to get a round into the chamber. The recoil spring is wayyyyyy to heavy, but.....this morning at the range, the gun only had 3 light primer strikes out of 120 rds. I was getting 5 light primer strikes per mag, so that is a vast improvement and makes me very happy. The only real issue was a few FTF as the little 25 ACP could not overcome the new recoil spring at times. I will be looking for factory springs to fix that issue. All in all, I’m very happy, but still do not know why the slide sits forward as both barrels fit well into the frame.
 
Posts: 1097 | Location: Orange Park, FL. | Registered: November 26, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I wonder if the slide is really too far forward or did they polish the rear of the slide too much during a refinish job? If you can look at another one see how closely the slide serrations match up with the rear rounded pin and the flush pin under the grip (right side of frame). I count six serrations (ridges going right to left) to about the center of that flush pin. If a different gun has a different number I'd say you slide was too far forward; if not I'd say someone polished the hell out of the rear of that slide.

Only thing I can think of. But man that is a pretty gun!
 
Posts: 10635 | Registered: June 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by mbinky:
I wonder if the slide is really too far forward or did they polish the rear of the slide too much during a refinish job? If you can look at another one see how closely the slide serrations match up with the rear rounded pin and the flush pin under the grip (right side of frame). I count six serrations (ridges going right to left) to about the center of that flush pin. If a different gun has a different number I'd say you slide was too far forward; if not I'd say someone polished the hell out of the rear of that slide.

Only thing I can think of. But man that is a pretty gun!


This photo came from Turnbull Restorations of the same pistol. Just for comparison about the extreme polishing theory.


My opinion is, there is a replacement barrel in your pistol, maybe from a different date or run, causing the slide mismatch and firing problem.


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Posts: 6673 | Location: Near the Metropolis of Tightsqueeze, Va | Registered: February 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The seller reached out to me and all is well. He gave me a NIB Ruger LCR in .22 Mag that I am VERY happy with. I do have some parts that I will; be posting in the classifieds if anyone needs them for their 1908 Vest pocket.
 
Posts: 1097 | Location: Orange Park, FL. | Registered: November 26, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I’ve never had one of these and haven’t taken one apart, but I’ve got a question. How does the barrel lock up? In the exploded view I found below, it appears that there are locking ridges on the barrel that match up to a similar set of ridges on the frame. The slide then travels back and forth using the recoil spring as you would suspect.

What IF those ridges were out of spec and more forward than they should be? The slide would set further forward than it should and the recoil spring would be under greater compression. A chambered round would be “just that far forwards of where it should be (light strike) and would make you think the recoil spring was higher strength than it should be.



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