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What is involved in LE "qualifying"? Login/Join 
Frequent Denizen
of the Twilight Zone
Picture of SIGWolf
posted
I'm sure different departments have different standards. I read about LEs "qualifying" periodically with their firearms.

What, in general, does it involve? How thorough is it?
 
Posts: 17134 | Location: Northern Vermont | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
Picture of Chowser
posted Hide Post
Hahahahahaha

Ohio’s qualification course is 25 rounds.

We “qualify” once a year to get it out of the way. Then we can train.



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 6233 | Location: Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Blue Machine
Picture of Phred
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The specific course of fire varies by dept, but in SC, it is generally 50 rounds fired from distances ranging from 3 yards to 25 yards. Each stage of fire will call for a certain number of rounds to be fired from a certain position, such as standing, kneeling, or prone, within a given period of time

Once the officer has shot all of their rounds, the target is scored. The officer must have a high enough score, determined by rounds on target, to “qualify”.
 
Posts: 1323 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: February 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Whack-Job
Whisperer
Picture of 18DAI
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Its sorta like......."no officer left behind". Wink

Shoot a minimum score of 70, then you can carry a gun for 6 more months. Can't shoot a 70? No problem. Remedial training during lunch. Then multiple more tries till you do. Smile Regards 18DAI




Blue lives matter.
 
Posts: 3592 | Registered: August 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Wow, y'all make my old Bureau of Prisons training sound pretty good. 60 rounds, 3 to 25 yards, using multiple positions, either hand, barricades, etc. Similar with the AR platform. The weakest was the shotgun, fire five rounds and you're done. Training was a bit more thorough when you trained to escort inmates in the community. All employees were required to re-cert annually, from the lowest clerk to the Warden of the institution.

Of course, when I started in CA, we were still using old, beat-up Colt Police Positives.
 
Posts: 14892 | Location: Lexington, KY | Registered: October 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As described, generally some nominal number of rounds at known distances with time limits. We have been through a handful in my state in my career.

One of the big problems that I have is when agencies and instructors start confusing qualifying with training. It seems like every time the course changes it is to add or remove some skill that either is now or is no longer relevant. And a lot of departments provide no training, they just shoot whatever the course of fire is multiple times and call it good.

It's akin to taking the same test over and over and over. Eventually you get good at the test. Or at least you're supposed to.
 
Posts: 2904 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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This PDF has the minimum required handgun qualifications for Arkansas LEOs, and Page 2 has the sample qualification course that most agencies use:

https://www.clest.org/Websites...t/images/handgun.pdf

As stated, qualifications are really basic, and not very thorough. Even still, there are officers that struggle with it.
 
Posts: 23104 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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Qualifications are a joke. They are no training, and not a measure of training.

I shot ours clean drawing the gun and then turning it upside down.

I can do that on demand. I do it from time to time to make the point to the bosses that it is not close to a test of actual skill. I’ve been trying to at least cut our times in half for 5 years with no success.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 32881 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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Standard military pistol quals are equally a joke.

Our last deployment was so long we had to requal 1/2 through. I hadn't shot in 9 month. Qualed with a perfect score even though I KNOW I threw one shot over the target while shooting a 5 round string. They saw a nice center group, no shots outside the 5 pt zone, and gave me 150/150. Even if they had count, 145/150 was still top qual.
 
Posts: 42774 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
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Firearms quals are not about skill, tactics, or training for gunfights. They are simply about meeting a requirement so that the department in question can check off a box saying you meet a standard, mainly for liability purposes.




I'm very discreet. I have no code of ethics. I will kill anyone, anywhere. Children, animals, old people, doesn't matter. I just love killing.
Krombopulos Michael
 
Posts: 10612 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of enidpd804
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The above. ^^^

Oklahoma cops are required to qualify once a year to keep their certification. When I started, the course was 20 rounds from 50 yards and in. 10% of the score was 50 yards. 30% of the score was 25 yards including weak-hand barricade.

Now, the "no officer left behind course," has no 50 yard element. An officer can miss all rounds at 25 yards and one at 15 and still qualify. That happened because of political pressure from chiefs and sheriffs.
 
Posts: 3588 | Location: OK | Registered: August 15, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In NJ we aren't allowed to carry guns...... j/k

In NJ our Qual Course is 60 rounds "Day Qual" Distances between 1 (Weapon Retention) to 25 yards and a "Night Qual" with distances between 1 (weapon Retention) and 15 yards. Must score at least an 80% to pass. We do this twice a year.
 
Posts: 255 | Registered: October 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The wicked flee when
no man pursueth
Picture of KevH
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It varies greatly agency to agency.

Our patrol qual is 36 rounds total ranging from 25 yards to 3 yards with varying times depending on distance and some right hand and some left hand shooting.

Our SWAT qual is the old 50 round FBI qual which is a little more difficult.


A golf course is a terrible waste of a perfectly good rifle range. -Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
 
Posts: 3867 | Location: Contra Costa County, CA | Registered: May 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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quote:
Originally posted by enidpd804:
Now, the "no officer left behind course," has no 50 yard element. An officer can miss all rounds at 25 yards and one at 15 and still qualify. That happened because of political pressure from chiefs and sheriffs.


Arkansas did the same ~5 years ago. Qualifications used to include a portion shot from the 25 yard line. They deleted that entire 25 yard segment, and added more rounds at the 3 yard line.
 
Posts: 23104 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ohio requirements are set by the state for "minimum" requirements. We are required to to Qual once a year. The agencies can then shoot as much or as little as budgets allow. They dropped the courses of fire down by less than half several years ago when the great ammo shortage came about and departments were having to borrow ammo. The removed several scenarios that were useful too including shooting while moving, which our old Admin did not like because it was risky/dangerous. I had hoped they would redo the minimum again but it never happened.

As said above, Ohio's minimum requirements are a joke. I have not seen anyone fail them since they were dumbed down.

My CHL course that we used to do required more shooting that the LE requirements do to certify competency.


Browning Buckmark Target, Colt Junior, Colt .22 Target Model, Colt .22 New Frontier, Colt Trooper, Colt Cobra, Colt Gov't Model, Colt Combat Elite, Colt Competition Model, Colt Cowboy, CZ Scorpion EVO, H&k P30L, S&W 625(.45 Colt), S&W 642, P290RS, Beretta 96, Glock 21, Ruger Blackhawk 45
 
Posts: 343 | Location: North Central Ohio | Registered: February 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I also worked with the OPOTA (the Ohio state LE training standards commission / academy) "qualification" requirements. It was dreamed up by idiots. Every year I got the course catalog, which was filled with high speed - low drag shooting courses.Carlos Hathcock often was at OPOTA. But you "qualify" with 25 rounds. If your PD / SO cant or wont send you to OPOTA and has no budget for independent training, you are on your own.
Which pretty much sums up police work these days, anyway!


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 8809 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Administrator
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I observed one local agency's qualification "course." It was, let's say, "amusing" Roll Eyes

The course consisted of a small number of rounds (less than 50).

The target was a full-size cardboard IPSC target with a 1' diameter hole cut out of the center of mass (A/C zone).

All the shooter had to do to qualify was to not hit the cardboard at a range of about 5 yards. So basically, in order to qualify, all you had to do was be decent, or really, really bad.

All of that shooting-and-not-hitting-the-cardboard must have saved that agency a fortune Big Grin I mean, why recycle, when you can pre-cycle?
 
Posts: 17631 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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The guy who has the Youtube channel below is doing a series of videos where he shoots different states' qualification drills. If you want to get an idea what they're like, it's worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/user/hrfunk/videos
 
Posts: 19039 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks BBMW, great site





Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency.



Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first
 
Posts: 48278 | Location: Henry County , Il | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
and this little pig said:
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Our agency uses FLETC standard qualification course. We qualify twice/yr. I think it's the minimum standard required. Also, no other training is offered for situational parameters (shooting from a seating position, shooting from a vehicle, shooting while moving).

Even though I earned my shooting instructor creds at Sig Academy, I was not able to instruct what they taught me due to liabilities. That's when you learn what frustration is!!!
 
Posts: 2829 | Registered: February 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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