quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
I am comfortable carrying any handgun that requires only a trigger pull to fire.

Guns that require two actions, such as releasing a safety, followed by a trigger pull are now for target shooting.

Good point. There is a learning curve that takes many, many repetitions of manipulating the safety in the draw and fire process to become comfortable with it. Not for everyone, I know.

Can't imagine anyone capable/trained in Self Defense carrying a DA/SA setup. Its all about muscle memory and you can not possibly train your muscles to sort it out when the SHTF.

Don't flame me seek out expert advice.

Sooooo ummmm about that. DA/SA sort of well ruled the roost for a great many years and one or two folks even an organization of two might have possibly used the occasional SIG P226/228 Beretta 92 HK USP for the occasional serious social reason but I’m sure they just got lucky.

But yea sure. NOBODY could possibly use a hugely complicated DA/SA pistol for self defense. I mean you would just be better off using it to commit suicide.

That’s one reason that the next person on my home invasion list is Earnest Langdon because he will likely have a DA/SA pistol and I figure I should be able to own his ass with my Glock 17. Hell it won’t even be a fair fight.

Heck Jjones here on this forum may or may not run a DA/SA from time to time and assuming I can catch him with one I should be able to smoke him without any effort as well. Hell I might even just let him get that first DA shot off just to make it fair.

Like with a manual safety, if you're going to shoot DA/SA, you have to burn it into your muscle memory, to he point where it should probably be all you shoot. But if you're willing to do that, it's a perfectly fine system. It's safer than striker fired without a manual safety. And as CsLinger noted, it was the dominant system in LE for a couple of decades.

quote:

Originally posted by adc:
Can't imagine anyone capable/trained in Self Defense carrying a DA/SA setup. Its all about muscle memory and you can not possibly train your muscles to sort it out when the SHTF.

Don't flame me seek out expert advice.

All jokes aside. I am of the mindset that one should be trained and capable of using really any firearm as needed. Be it a DA revolver or a Taran Tactical G34. I think folks would be well served understanding the pros and cons of various firearm action types.

But I get it Glock world so why bother knowing how to use anything else?

One of the YouTube channels that has tickled me is HRFunk. Now I am not saying this guy is some end all be all guru or anything but one thing he does is run various state PD shooting qualifications and he does it with a variety of firearms. It’s amazing and entertaining to see what some obsolete arms are capable of.

Never mind the fact that 58% of the people who responded to the OP's poll prefer something other than a striker.

quote:

Never mind the fact that 58% of the people who responded to the OP's poll prefer something other than a striker.

All of us......dead men walking.

Beretta 92. LTT Elite specifically. I love my Glocks, 320’s, and P10’s but the older I get I find myself getting back to my roots.

Honestly the biggest reason for my “reconversion “ is my ability to buy DA/SA guns with great triggers. LTT, 225a1, Legion, they all came with very good if not outstanding triggers. Especially the LTT with trigger job.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

quote:

Never mind the fact that 58% of the people who responded to the OP's poll prefer something other than a striker.

All of us......dead men walking.

Yeah. I'm going to have to get around to re-evaluating my life.

You're right but...

When the SHTF, someone is going to default muscle memory for what they've trained with the most and the most recent. If you've burned striker into your psyche, and you go on a range with a P226, and shank the first shot a bit off target because you weren't used to the long stiff first shot DA pull, it's no biggie. But if you happened to strap on the SIG the day you have a SHTF event, after equivalently burning striker into your brain, and need to make that first shot count, it's a bigger deal.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
All jokes aside. I am of the mindset that one should be trained and capable of using really any firearm as needed. Be it a DA revolver or a Taran Tactical G34. I think folks would be well served understanding the pros and cons of various firearm action types.

But I get it Glock world so why bother knowing how to use anything else?

One of the YouTube channels that has tickled me is HRFunk. Now I am not saying this guy is some end all be all guru or anything but one thing he does is run various state PD shooting qualifications and he does it with a variety of firearms. It’s amazing and entertaining to see what some obsolete arms are capable of.

quote:

Originally posted by adc:
Can't imagine anyone capable/trained in Self Defense carrying a DA/SA setup. Its all about muscle memory and you can not possibly train your muscles to sort it out when the SHTF.

Don't flame me seek out expert advice.

One of the dumbest things I’ve read on SF.

I just picked up two single action autos, and one double action auto that can be carried single action; two of the three are heavy, and I'd be very comfortable carrying any of them for defense. I have shelves of double action single action autos ranging from sigs to berettas to CZ,s and others, that I'd be quite comfortable carrying, as well as HK's, etc.

I'm really comfortable with the Glocks and other striker fires pistols and while my primary carry is a G32 and I carry a P365 in the pocket regularly, I'm very happy to carry a revolver, either in the pocket or on my hip, or on my ankle.

The thing is that some of these firearms see very little use, and some I shoot much more. It makes sense to me that for daily carry or defensive use, to focus on what I'm more proficient using. While I have a bit of a love affair with single action handguns (revolvers and autos), I carry and shoot striker fired autos more often these days and am more current and proficient with them. Presently I'm having a relationship with CZ products on the side and am having an affair with a couple of CZ's. Don't judge me.

I bought into the Wilson hype and have one I can't put down; an EDCx9, which I have carried and which shoots extremely well. First shots cleared a plate rack fast, and I honestly think someone who'd never shot before could pick this pistol up and do the same. Whether it justifies the cost, I don't know, but I love it, and I have carried it, and it will probably see a lot more time on my waist.

The arguments over striker vs. hammer and action type are utterly idiotic. I mean drop dead freaking ignorantly stupid. Seriously. Pick something, train with it, use it. It just DOESN'T MATTER. Know how to handle it, shoot it, reload it, clean it, carry it, and it makes not a whit's difference what drives the firing pin or striker or how the ammunition is fed. If it's reliable, revolver or auto, striker or double action or single action or whatever, proficiency and shot placement rules the day. Period.

I'm not going to carry something I'm not prepared to use, and while I am no ace of the base on any count, when the shooting starts, I'm either going to be home watching TV (because I was too smart to show up where the shooting started), filling out a report explaining the dead guy with the hole in his chest, or will be laying bled out in a pile of brass...but I'm not going to lose sleep over what I carried, because anything I put on my hip, in my pocket, or on my ankle is something I trust and that I can shoot, period.

quote:

You're right but...

When the SHTF, someone is going to default muscle memory for what they've trained with the most and the most recent. If you've burned striker into your psyche, and you go on a range with a P226, and shank the first shot a bit off target because you weren't used to the long stiff first shot DA pull, it's no biggie. But if you happened to strap on the SIG the day you have a SHTF event, after equivalently burning striker into your brain, and need to make that first shot count, it's a bigger deal.

I’m not denying training to a specific manual of arms. The vast majority of my shooting is DA/SA. I am just saying that carrying a DA/SA or a 1911 or a Revolver doesn’t make one unarmed assuming they are practiced with it. I would never use a 1911 because I haven’t trained and burned that safety into my mind. I would if I dedicated myself to it.

I am most comfortable these days with DA/SA but can grab a striker with little effort.

I carried for duty and competed with revolvers, then with 3rd Gen S&W DA/SA pistols, then Beretta 92's, then Sig M-11 and P220 DA/SA's. I acquired several Legion P226 and P220 SAO's, and liked them so much I settled on a Legion P220SAO as my daily carry.

Muscle memory is really a misnomer, because the memory occurs in your brain, not in the muscles. Neural motor memory requires many repetitions to become non-declaratory, or automatic. It is interesting to note that a sleep cycle after practice will help develop that neural motor memory-if you practice today, then get a night's sleep, then repeat the process tomorrow, you will be better tomorrow than you were at the end of today's practice session.

I attended several high round count instructor courses, and practiced the draw and fire cycle thousands of times with my SAO's over the course of more than a year, before becoming confident enough to make them my primary carry guns. Not only do you have to learn to manipulate the safety during the draw, you need to learn to do it at the right stage of the draw, while driving the gun to the target, for the sake of safety.

There is a lot more going on in your brain with this procedural memory than you might think. One thing we know for certain, though, is that you will revert to that automatic memory when under high stress.

quote:

Originally posted by adc:
Can't imagine anyone capable/trained in Self Defense carrying a DA/SA setup. Its all about muscle memory and you can not possibly train your muscles to sort it out when the SHTF.

Don't flame me seek out expert advice.

Are you alright?

I train tiny housewives, who have never even held a gun, to shoot DA/SA pistols in under an hour. They master the dreaded DA to SA in a few mags.

I am embarrassed for any "gun guy" who claims the transition from DA to SA is an issue. Regards 18DAI

Wait. I'll rule out a Russian Nagant 1895 revolver.

I thought they were cool until I actually got to fire one.

quote:

Originally posted by 18DAI:
I train tiny housewives

Great work if you can get it.

I only have SAO and DA/SA. I had a Shield but sold it for the P938. The P365 may swing me the other way, but I love the P938 so much.