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just had a 17 lb main spring put in my P229; opinions on this weight for a carry gun please.
 
Posts: 221 | Registered: April 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Very subjective question.

If your 229 is absolutely reliable and goes bang EVERY EVERY EVERY time, it may be OK for carry. Would like bit more info, DA/SA trigger pull weight, how many rounds thru since 17# spring, etc.

Believe most posts I have seen do not go below 18#. Mine is 18#.
 
Posts: 206 | Location: South Texas | Registered: February 27, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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The lightest Wolff spring I ever found to be completely reliable and therefore used was 19 pounds and replaced it every 2000 rounds.

For range use misfires don’t matter. For serious purposes they do, and I found that once a lower power aftermarket spring got to the point of failing to work reliably, it went downhill very quickly thereafter and sometimes wouldn’t fire rounds even with multiple strikes.

Mine is, of course, a conservative attitude and I will only congratulate those who have had no problems with lighter springs.




“Without its tough spearmen, Hellenic culture would have had nothing to give the world. It would not have lasted long enough. When Greek culture became so sophisticated that its common men would no longer fight to the death, as at Thermopylae, but became devious and clever, a horde of Roman farm boys overran them.”
— T. R. Fehrenbach, This Kind of War
 
Posts: 39094 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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DA = 9.8 lb; SA = 5.0 lb out to shoot today; first 125 rounds with factory spring was 12 lb and 6 lb; new gun
 
Posts: 221 | Registered: April 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
The lightest Wolff spring I ever found to be completely reliable and therefore used was 19 pounds and replaced it every 2000 rounds.


are you advising using a factory spring for carry?
 
Posts: 221 | Registered: April 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Until the DAK trigger was introduced in 2004, most of my Classic line SIG pistols were double action only. I experimented with lighter Wolff springs and as I say, I found that the 17 and 18 pound versions and the SIG factory 18 pound spring were not completely reliable. The 19 pound Wolff was reliable until I hit about 3000 rounds with one, and then it was like running into an unreliability wall: misfire after misfire. That was the reason for my practice of replacing the springs every 2K rounds. (I don’t, BTW, believe it’s necessary to replace factory springs like that.)

The specific ammunition being used can also make a difference, of course. I never experimented extensively with carry versus training ammo, but I decided that if there was anything that a spring wouldn’t ignite, it wasn’t suitable for any purpose.

At this point with my DAK SIGs I actually increase the striking force of the mainspring by putting a small washer in line with the spring. That increases the trigger pull weight somewhat, but I decided long ago that—within reason—it was up to me to adapt to the gun and not to try to adapt the gun to me.

I’m not preaching at anyone with all this, just explaining what I do.




“Without its tough spearmen, Hellenic culture would have had nothing to give the world. It would not have lasted long enough. When Greek culture became so sophisticated that its common men would no longer fight to the death, as at Thermopylae, but became devious and clever, a horde of Roman farm boys overran them.”
— T. R. Fehrenbach, This Kind of War
 
Posts: 39094 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have 19 lb Wolff mainsprings in two P229s. No misfires as yet.

I have not tried lighter mainsprings and from what I have read from multiple sources, I would not consider doing so for a self-defense pistol.
 
Posts: 364 | Registered: March 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
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quote:
Originally posted by rjksx1:
just had a 17 lb main spring put in my P229; opinions on this weight for a carry gun please.

Opinions will vary. Nothing better than testing it yourself, with the ammo you choose to carry. You already installed the spring. Test it out. If it reliably ignites, then what is there to ask? Wink
 
Posts: 17008 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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OK; good post.
 
Posts: 221 | Registered: April 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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First the obvious, different models of the same gun may tolerate lower mainspring weights than others. Same with ammo. The conclusions here, of course, apply only to my own guns. Over the years, I've played with all of the Wolff RP spring packs for my P239, P226 and P229.

I do my own action work on my Sigs and other guns I own. It has been a good learning experience as well as fun. All of my guns are for SD and that is my perspective. While performance is the goal, it can't come at the price of reliability.

WHY USE RP MAINSPRINGS(hammer springs)?

1) Obviously, to reduce the weight of the trigger pull. With the P229, it is primarily to reduce the heavier DA.

2) With any DA/SA pistol, reducing the DA pull will also reduce the SA pull. Be aware of this when going to lower weight springs. With a SD pistol, you could end up with a nice DA and a dangerously light SA.

3) Trigger pull weight is important. However, action smoothness is as important, if not more so. Reducing the mainspring weight is not a substitute for cleaning up a gritty or stagey action.

4) With my own guns, I always analyze how the trigger feels through it's cycle. I wait until the gun has some rounds under its' belt. Then I perform whatever action work is needed.

OBSERVATIONS ON P229 WOLFF HAMMER SPRING PAK

1) I'd advise getting the three spring set for the plastic hammer spring base. This way you can test them yourself in your own gun. The $10.99 isn't going to break the bank.
https://www.gunsprings.com/SIG...229/cID1/mID4/dID253

2) For those that just want to keep it simple, get a couple of 19# springs. I believe that is what GrayGuns uses in their spring kits. regardless, it's a safe way to go for those that don't want to experiment.

3) Regardless of what you end up using, it has to be reliable with your gun/ammo. If it's a SD gun it has to be tested with your carry ammo. As sigfreund mentioned, there is also the possibility of RP springs weakening with time.

MY OWN EXPERIENCE

1) I've been using Wolff RP springs for over 20 years with my Sig DA/SA's. I've never experienced any failures to ignite with any of my pistols. Your own mileage may vary.

2) Originally, I used the 19# springs. As I got older, I tested and moved to the 18#. Arthritis, trigger finger, wrist problems, etc.

3) I have played with the 17# and simply didn't like the "feel" of the DA and the overly light SA pulls. The difference between 17# and 18# wasn't worth it. BTW, I had no misfires with them.

4) Before I installed any of the RP springs, the actions were tuned. That way I could work with a smooth trigger pull and better gauge the effect of the springs.

5) With my P226 and P229's, I installed both versions of the plastic hammer spring bases. Both the original and then the E2 versions. I found the E2 versions to be inferior to the standard base in regards to smoothness. I'm not sure what Sig has standardized on nowadays.


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An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler
 
Posts: 4119 | Location: Northeast | Registered: June 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I wouldn't lighten the weight on springs on ANY carry gun. In terms of having to use it, you won't even feel how heavy the trigger is. You might also be limp wristing or who knows what. I wouldn't take any chances.


Edited to add: I NEVER said anything about not having a trigger job done on a carry gun. I simply said I wouldn't lighten any springs on a carry gun like a mainspring. I want a carry gun to go bang everytime……..both with harder primers, cold weather, hot weather, even limp wristing (if possible). So I wouldn't lighten the mainspring or anything that may reduce ignition reliability.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jimmy123x,
 
Posts: 16834 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I recently installed a Gray Guns SRT kits in my 229. It came with a pair of 19lb springs and the recommendation to replace them every 5000 rounds. The trigger pull was very nice.
 
Posts: 4090 | Location: Where ever Uncle Sam Sends Me | Registered: March 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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very nice post Nipper; my gun went from a DA = 12.0 to 9.8, and a SA = 6.0 to 5.0; what I've read from other posters is much less; i.e. 8.5 & 3.5;
any ideas on this?
 
Posts: 221 | Registered: April 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I hate responses like the above. You might not feel a heavier spring under duress with an ample shot of adrenaline. When you practice though you might develop bad habits because the trigger pull is too heavy for your abilities/strength/technique. Not all of which can you always address. If you can shoot what seems like a very heavy trigger pull to you, very well during practice then I suspect you wouldn’t be asking about lighter springs.

There is nothing wrong with changing in a mainspring to a lighter weight if you are willing to test it enough that you are comfortable with reliabity concerns.

Gun manufacturers put the parts in their guns for many reasons. You would would foolish to think that every single part was the perfect part. Sometimes a heavy mainspring is installed to satisfy the customers wishes. A heavy mainspring does increase the chance of ignition under arduous scenarios. It might not be necessary though.

If you bought a stock Glock with the NY trigger setup you might jump to the conclusion that Glock engineers thought it best. You would be wrong. Guys have been swapping D springs into 92’s forever with zero issue. Hell 92D’s come with the D spring.

Buy a shooters pack and test them out. I have never heard of the 3000 round “wall” for mainspring reliability. Not saying the mans experience isn’t true but I will say it seems like a unique one.

Edited to add: didn’t know Grayguns says 5000 rounds to replace. Interesting.
 
Posts: 2026 | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by rjksx1:
very nice post Nipper; my gun went from a DA = 12.0 to 9.8, and a SA = 6.0 to 5.0; what I've read from other posters is much less; i.e. 8.5 & 3.5;
any ideas on this?

As I mentioned, every gun is different. I action tuned around 30 revolvers (my own) in the late 1960's and 1970's. What you learn is that every gun, even the same make/model has a different "personality". Some were very easy to tune and only took a couple of hours. Some hard cases would take me two weeks.

There's no substitute for actually working on your own gun. Good luck on your new endeavor.

All this stuff about NEVER altering anything factory is misguided. Notice I am being polite and civil. It is incumbent upon the owner to do his own testing in a gun he may trust his life with. I can't tell you and you can't tell me what that threshold is. You hear the same thing about caliber conversions...don't trust them for carry. Well if a conversions has been proven reliable with carry ammo and carry mags...what's the problem? Most folks don't even properly test their new high end defensive handgun with the mags and ammo they will use.

BTW, I'm with pedropcola on the philosophy side of this. There are a number of good reasons for modifying a handgun. especially if the goal is to more effectively utilize the gun for its intended purpose. And NO...I'm not talking about the Glock folks that replace nearly every Glock internal component with after-market. Roll Eyes And NO...I'm not talking about folks who think their lack of proficiency is due to some deficiency in the gun rather than their skill.


______________________
An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler
 
Posts: 4119 | Location: Northeast | Registered: June 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Nipper:
quote:
Originally posted by rjksx1:
very nice post Nipper; my gun went from a DA = 12.0 to 9.8, and a SA = 6.0 to 5.0; what I've read from other posters is much less; i.e. 8.5 & 3.5;
any ideas on this?

As I mentioned, every gun is different. I action tuned around 30 revolvers (my own) in the late 1960's and 1970's. What you learn is that every gun, even the same make/model has a different "personality". Some were very easy to tune and only took a couple of hours. Some hard cases would take me two weeks.

There's no substitute for actually working on your own gun. Good luck on your new endeavor.

Reply All this stuff about NEVER altering anything factory is misguided. Notice I am being polite and civil. It is incumbent upon the owner to do his own testing in a gun he may trust his life with. I can't tell you and you can't tell me what that threshold is. You hear the same thing about caliber conversions...don't trust them for carry. Well if a conversions has been proven reliable with carry ammo and carry mags...what's the problem? Most folks don't even properly test their new high end defensive handgun with the mags and ammo they will use.

BTW, I'm with pedropcola on the philosophy side of this. There are a number of good reasons for modifying a handgun. especially if the goal is to more effectively utilize the gun for its intended purpose. And NO...I'm not talking about the Glock folks that replace nearly every Glock internal component with after-market. Roll Eyes And NO...I'm not talking about folks who think their lack of proficiency is due to some deficiency in the gun rather than their skill.


Amen
 
Posts: 206 | Location: South Texas | Registered: February 27, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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