quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
That's a shame really because it's an awesome round that will never get it's just do because of the expensee.

I could not agree with your post more. The round is powerful, small, and lightweight resulting in making it easier to carry multiple magazines and a lightweight pistol. Even with Ruger addition of the 57 and several large format pistol accepting it, e.g., CMMG, it must be adopted by a large military or multiple large police departments for the price to drop considerably. The view by many is simply why bother when 9mm already exists. Since it is doubtful "Ray Guns, Star Trek Phasers" will ever be available, an cartridge such as the 5.7X28mm would represent a great innovation for the field, IMHO. I wanting something low recoil so I bought a SIG p226 MK25, range & HD, and a M11-A1, both 9mm, as my EDC. Not exactly light weight but reliable, accurate and low recoil.

cheapest 5.7x28mm green tip
https://fn57sale.com/product/ss198lf/

A local Bass Pro by me has the standard FN 5.7 for $30 a box of 50 fmj and there are hundreds of rounds available. I haven't really seen any changes in my neck of the woods. Some on-line retailers are off their meds to be charging so much.

I would love to see a P365 that can shoot 5.7. I have no idea what the grip would be like or what the ballistics would be out of such a short barrel, but I keep thinking the round has potential as a mouse gun and CCW.

Ruger made their LCP 2 in .22lr. I have zero interest in a .22lr ccw, but an LCP 2 in 5.7 would be something I’d consider for sure.

Honestly without the regular AP round I don't see a reason to own one.

5.7x28mm is less effective than cheaper/more common handgun rounds(i.e. 9mm)

5.7x28MM for CCW/self defense or as a "mouse gun" doesn't really do anything cheaper rounds do, in fact it does less...

Also it's ridiculously expensive per round.

Good luck training enough with it to become as proficient as everyone else that uses a commonly available round like 9mm, or even the non-9mm's in decline like .45ACP/.40 S&W/.357SIG.

5.7×28mm has from 344 ft-lbs to 394 ft lbs depending if the SS190 AP FMJ or SS195LF JHP being used respectively.

Standard defensive .357SIG rounds for my Glock 32 have 500+ ft lbs of energy and can go higher with special loads, etc.

I commonly use 50 round packs of Hornady Critical Duty 9mm 135 gr +P which has 369 FT/LBs of energy at the muzzle in all my SIG Classics.

The 5.7 round like all other pistols just doesn't have the energy to cause rifle-level cavitation.

Then you're just left with basically a .22 sized hole without it's armor piercing characteristics.

I've found a guys ballistic gel test where none of the FMJ 5.7 rounds fragment(less tissue damage) and they penetrate about 13 inches, which meets the penetration standard of 12 - 18 average per the FBI but only by an inch, and that's out of the FN Five-Seven's 4.8 inch barrel!

He also noted the V-max JHP he tested that fully expanded had an unremarkable damage path due to the small size of the round.

Now, let's cut the barrel length 1.7 inches to make a P365 out of it and we get a really bad combo for Self-Defence or CCW.

Which neither expands well with JHP's to cause good bleeding because its basically a glorified .22 and will likely not penetrate enough to make a killshot through the spine with standard defensive firing (center of mass).

Now if you had the AP rounds and were up against armored targets I'd want the FN 5.7 as my sidearm along with a rifle of course.

Or if I were playing Counter-Strike, you all know thats why you like it lol

here's this guys testing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVoWtzbN2ig

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
I would love to see a P365 that can shoot 5.7. I have no idea what the grip would be like or what the ballistics would be out of such a short barrel, but I keep thinking the round has potential as a mouse gun and CCW.

Ruger made their LCP 2 in .22lr. I have zero interest in a .22lr ccw, but an LCP 2 in 5.7 would be something I’d consider for sure.

Hey esdunbar a compact 5.7 is a great idea. While you would lose velocity, it would still be a great small firearm. From my limited knowledge, the 5.7X28mm round is small so it's power comes from velocity and thus, the long barrels. Nevertheless, out of a 3" or 4" barrel the ballistics, might still generate enough energy to be a viable CC. Yes Ruger should make one since they have the LCR in 6 calibers including 327 Federal. Why not introduce another 5.7!

in general 5.7 seems a terrible round for a tiny pistol with a short barrel. First because you can't make a tiny pistol to shoot it, since the round is so long. Second because the ammo we get won't work in very short barrels. it doesn't even really work in long barrels. Even the good ammo needs a longish barrel to be effective which is why a P90 barrel is 10+". If FN could have had it effective for its design objective of penetrating soft armor and loped a couple of inches off for the P90 it they would have. I bought one of the very first PS90's that got to the US and have enjoyed the design since. 5.7 ammo has never been available in qty and at a decent price. Having lived through several shortages over the years I've made it a habit to get more than I shoot every year. These new Ruger owners are going to be in for a huge surprise trying to use their new guns. Now if I can get $3.60/rd I will be able to retire...

Let us not forget the other similar caliber, the Rock Island Armory's 1911 in 22 TCM (Tuason, Craig Minimagnum). Of course the pistol RIA sells is an all metal 1911 weighing around 40 oz. Then RIA is known as a more of a "Tinker's Gun," though some people swear by them. The compact is 8" long with a 4.25" barrel while the Full Size is 8.75" long with a 5" barrel.

Regarding price, a search on Ammoseek shows it available from multiple sources from .27 to .54 per round. There is a second 22 TCM called the 22 TCM 9R which matches the length of a 9mm and with a slide from RIA Glock 17 and 19's will accept it. Prices range from .31 to .50 per round. Well at least the prices are better.

I seriously considered buy one of these pistols, but if I am going to carry a 40 oz. 1911, I could get one in 9mm. More recoil but from more reliable companies and cheaper ammo prices.

Did anyone ever have one of these pistols?

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
in general 5.7 seems a terrible round for a tiny pistol with a short barrel. First because you can't make a tiny pistol to shoot it, since the round is so long. Second because the ammo we get won't work in very short barrels. it doesn't even really work in long barrels. Even the good ammo needs a longish barrel to be effective which is why a P90 barrel is 10+". If FN could have had it effective for its design objective of penetrating soft armor and loped a couple of inches off for the P90 it they would have. I bought one of the very first PS90's that got to the US and have enjoyed the design since. 5.7 ammo has never been available in qty and at a decent price. Having lived through several shortages over the years I've made it a habit to get more than I shoot every year. These new Ruger owners are going to be in for a huge surprise trying to use their new guns. Now if I can get $3.60/rd I will be able to retire...

If .22 WMR is made for an 18" barrel but there are versions made for 2" barrels, then why could not an Ammo company make a 5.7X28mm for shorter barrels?

Speaking of low recoiling firearms, which I believe is one of the major attractions of the 5.7X28mm round, did anyone try a Grand Power pistol? I shot the K100 once and it has a great trigger and low recoil due to the barrel rotating 90 degrees. A former sales person at the range had one and let me shoot it. I loved the pistol. I periodically consider getting one but I do not like having to pay shipping for any warranty issues.

Global Ordinance, located in Sarasota Fl is the current importer. I have seen a lot of interest on this forum in their Stribog large format pistol.

quote:

then why could not an Ammo company make a 5.7X28mm for shorter barrels?

They could but they can't cure the physics. You can find gold dot .22 wmr advertised for 2" barrels but its not even close to effective velocities. 2" 970fps, 6" 1500fps. head on over to http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html and see the stunning differences in just a little more length on wmr. 5.7 will be way,way worse. This is a round that depends on serious velocity for effectiveness. No velocity no effectiveness.

quote:

Speaking of low recoiling firearms, which I believe is one of the major attractions of the 5.7X28mm round

I also don't get this comment. at the same level of energy and the same weight firearm 5.7x28 is not low recoiling versus say 9mm. That's just the physics. But the 5.7 round pushes a small bullet at serious velocities if you give it enough barrel (and that's what defeats soft armor) and in that specific use 5.7 is very mild versus the alternatives like 5.56. and lighter and etc.. But for every other use its not unusual in recoil for its energy.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

Speaking of low recoiling firearms, which I believe is one of the major attractions of the 5.7X28mm round

I also don't get this comment. at the same level of energy and the same weight firearm 5.7x28 is not low recoiling versus say 9mm. That's just the physics. But the 5.7 round pushes a small bullet at serious velocities if you give it enough barrel (and that's what defeats soft armor) and in that specific use 5.7 is very mild versus the alternatives like 5.56. and lighter and etc.. But for every other use its not unusual in recoil for its energy.

I think it is low recoiling vs. a 9mm. Roughly 25% to 35% less recoil and so does everyone I spoken to who has shot it including a number of people who own it. Multiple reviews of it reference the fact that is around 30% less recoil than a 9mm, including Massad Ayoob.

The low recoil is listed in Wikipedia article:
with 3 references including Massad Ayoob

"but it has roughly 30 percent less recoil than the 9×19mm cartridge, improving controllability.[19][23][35]"

19. Massad Ayoob (April 16, 2010). "Defensive Handguns – The FN Five-seveN". On Target. Archived from the original on October 2, 2011. Retrieved January 28, 2010.

23. Marchington, James (2004). The Encyclopedia of Handheld Weapons. Miami: Lewis International, Inc. ISBN 978-1-930983-14-4.

35. Fortier, David (2008). "Military Ammo Today". Handguns Magazine. Archived from the original on 2010-01-22. Retrieved October 19, 2009.

I tried to look at some of your links, but they aren't active and don't match wiki reference numbers or content. But in any case I am not a physicist, I am an organic chemist. But my understanding of physics is pretty basic. I'm pretty sure recoil itself is driven by energy of the projectile. And with nearly the same energy as a 9mm round the recoil will be nearly the same. I am also sure *(based on a zillion conversations about PCC recoil characteristics that how it gets managed matters) for feel, but in the end you have the same amount of energy. But in this case we are simply talking the same mechanisms so that doesn't matter. I am wondering if somehow your comment about shooting and ownership is somehow directed that I have not done both. It is doubtful you will find anyone casually who has shot as many 5.7 rounds as I have. And while I am not recoil sensitive I personally cannot tell any material difference between 5.7 and 9mm.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hrcjon,

quote:

Originally posted by SSAreGreat:

I think it is low recoiling vs. a 9mm. Roughly 25% to 35% less recoil and so does everyone I spoken to who has shot it including a number of people who own it. Multiple reviews of it reference the fact that is around 30% less recoil than a 9mm, including Massad Ayoob.

The low recoil is listed in Wikipedia article:
with 3 references including Massad Ayoob

"but it has roughly 30 percent less recoil than the 9×19mm cartridge, improving controllability.[19][23][35]"

19. Massad Ayoob (April 16, 2010). "Defensive Handguns – The FN Five-seveN". On Target. Archived from the original on October 2, 2011. Retrieved January 28, 2010.

23. Marchington, James (2004). The Encyclopedia of Handheld Weapons. Miami: Lewis International, Inc. ISBN 978-1-930983-14-4.

35. Fortier, David (2008). "Military Ammo Today". Handguns Magazine. Archived from the original on 2010-01-22. Retrieved October 19, 2009.

I agree with you. One of the major draws to the 5.7x28 is the low recoil. I think the big boom and ensuing fireball can make it seem like it has a lot of recoil until you shoot one. That's what makes it fun to shoot though. It's also why I like the 22 TCM but it's not popular for the same reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:

quote:

Originally posted by SSAreGreat:

I think it is low recoiling vs. a 9mm. Roughly 25% to 35% less recoil and so does everyone I spoken to who has shot it including a number of people who own it. Multiple reviews of it reference the fact that is around 30% less recoil than a 9mm, including Massad Ayoob.

The low recoil is listed in Wikipedia article:
with 3 references including Massad Ayoob

"but it has roughly 30 percent less recoil than the 9×19mm cartridge, improving controllability.[19][23][35]"

19. Massad Ayoob (April 16, 2010). "Defensive Handguns – The FN Five-seveN". On Target. Archived from the original on October 2, 2011. Retrieved January 28, 2010.

23. Marchington, James (2004). The Encyclopedia of Handheld Weapons. Miami: Lewis International, Inc. ISBN 978-1-930983-14-4.

35. Fortier, David (2008). "Military Ammo Today". Handguns Magazine. Archived from the original on 2010-01-22. Retrieved October 19, 2009.

I agree with you. One of the major draws to the 5.7x28 is the low recoil. I think the big boom and ensuing fireball can make it seem like it has a lot of recoil until you shoot one. That's what makes it fun to shoot though. It's also why I like the 22 TCM but it's not popular for the same reasons.

Thanks for the post 1s1k. When I first moved into an area where is was simple to buy and own firearms I asked about a powerful but low recoil firearm. The LGS/Range staff said large and heavy 9mm such as p series SIG or 9mm 1911 or the FN Five Seven. Everyone I spoken to who owned or shot one, and almost every review I read always references the low recoiling Five 7. The pistol may have been designed for penetrating body armor and light weight ammo, but the pistol feels great to shoot.

Who knows maybe if the prices come down and the current shortages are over, I might buy one.

Happy Shooting!

quote:

Originally posted by SSAreGreat:

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
I agree with you. One of the major draws to the 5.7x28 is the low recoil. I think the big boom and ensuing fireball can make it seem like it has a lot of recoil until you shoot one. That's what makes it fun to shoot though. It's also why I like the 22 TCM but it's not popular for the same reasons.

Thanks for the post 1s1k. When I first moved into an area where is was simple to buy and own firearms I asked about a powerful but low recoil firearm. The LGS/Range staff said large and heavy 9mm such as p series SIG or 9mm 1911 or the FN Five Seven. Everyone I spoken to who owned or shot one, and almost every review I read always references the low recoiling Five 7. The pistol may have been designed for penetrating body armor and light weight ammo, but the pistol feels great to shoot.

I had a chance to shoot a 5.7 belonging to a friend of a friend. The recoil was reasonably light, but the concussion was ferocious.

quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:

quote:

Originally posted by SSAreGreat:

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
I agree with you. One of the major draws to the 5.7x28 is the low recoil. I think the big boom and ensuing fireball can make it seem like it has a lot of recoil until you shoot one. That's what makes it fun to shoot though. It's also why I like the 22 TCM but it's not popular for the same reasons.

Thanks for the post 1s1k. When I first moved into an area where is was simple to buy and own firearms I asked about a powerful but low recoil firearm. The LGS/Range staff said large and heavy 9mm such as p series SIG or 9mm 1911 or the FN Five Seven. Everyone I spoken to who owned or shot one, and almost every review I read always references the low recoiling Five 7. The pistol may have been designed for penetrating body armor and light weight ammo, but the pistol feels great to shoot.

I had a chance to shoot a 5.7 belonging to a friend of a friend. The recoil was reasonably light, but the concussion was ferocious.

You are so correct about the concussion. Even with double hearing protection the sound is not dampened that much.

Glad I bought another 500rds before this craziness

5.7 makes the short lost of cartridges that beg to be reloaded. Component costs are so low that I’d bet you would be 15¢ each using existing brass.