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Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
quote:
Originally posted by TxRod:
quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs:
BHP. Its high capacity magazine set the stage for other designs to follow.


I second the BHP. It was a game changer.


I'll third this. The BHP used both the double column magazine and the Browning tilting barrel design.


Agreed. And not just a tilting barrel, but the first to use a linkless tilting barrel, which is by far the more commonly used nowadays of the two Browning tilting systems (compared to the earlier swinging link tilting barrel of the M1909 and eventual M1911).
 
Posts: 25819 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
LIBERTATEM DEFENDIMUS
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I would say the following:

1) 1911 - While it was a culmination of previous designs, it's one of those designs where the finished product is greater than the sum of it's parts. The fact that it was and continues to be a relevant design for over 100 years of continuous military and sporting usage gives credence to it's overall excellence in design.

2) BHP - It was the grandfather to all modern hi capacity pistols. It has a service history close to the 1911.

3) Glock - It takes the proven Browning concept to it's logical conclusion. The Browning design melded with high tech polymer frame, safe action trigger, striker fire mechanism, Tenifer finish, polygonal barrel & ultra low bore axis. A pistol adopted by more police and military agencies worldwide than any other single handgun design. Ken Hackathorn and Bill Wilson both agreed... "We live in a Glock world..." That says a lot coming from long time 1911 legends.
 
Posts: 5249 | Registered: October 18, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
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HK VP70
Not a great pistol by modern standards and has an atrocious trigger really designed for full auto but is one of if not the first polymer pistol and a polymer pistol with one of the first truly high capacities. Is it a great pistol? Hell no. Did it pave the way for the Glock 17 which is a great pistol, one could argue.


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 5272 | Location: On the water | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The HK VP70Z first polymer handgun - beat Glock by ~10 years

 
Posts: 9 | Location: DFW, TX | Registered: October 16, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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The VP70 from 1970 was the first production polymer pistol, but the first known polymer pistol is the Soviet TKB-023, an experimental Makarov design with a polymer frame, designed in 1963. A small number were produced for trials, but the idea was then shelved.

 
Posts: 25819 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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Originally posted by cslinger:
HK VP70
Not a great pistol by modern standards and has an atrocious trigger really designed for full auto


While definitely not a great pistol, the method of converting the VP70M from semiauto pistol to select fire machine pistol by attaching a shoulder stock to engage a burst mechanism is actually a pretty cool idea (at least from a theoretical mechanical standpoint, since it's not so great in actual practice).



 
Posts: 25819 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
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Yeah the VP70 is a truly a neat gun and when looked through the lense of history downright space age.

My first “exposure” to the VP70 was playing Electronic Arts Wasteland. It was always my starting weapon because even though the .45 did more damage that 18 round capacity was monstrous. Smile

I got a chance to shoot one about 15 years ago, I’ll let you know what I think of it when I get through the trigger press. Razz


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 5272 | Location: On the water | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
NOT compromised!
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Walther P99. A German made, striker fired , polymer framed pistol with a de-cocker. Used in a couple of James Bond films. I really enjoy this gun and have owned two, and still currently own one. Great gun, but cosistitently lost out to Glocks because Glock was always the lowest bidder.
 
Posts: 1330 | Location: Tampa Bay, Florida | Registered: July 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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With the introduction of the P250/P320 series of pistols, Sig's use of a proprietary "Fire Control Unit" (FCU) and the relatively easy ability of owners to convert their subcompact CCW guns to compacts or full sized firearms, change calibers, sighting systems (steel or optics) really brought the owner the ability to personalize their firearm like no other than maybe the AR-15. I bought a P250 shortly after they first hit the market and although the P320 is significantly improved with it's striker fired system over the DAO hammer/firing pin ignition system, the core of these tools is the FCU concept and it's evolution. Below is my P250 as a subcompact .40 S&W (how I'd carry it today), with it's compact 9mm conversion kit (and 15 round magazine).



"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
 
Posts: 9195 | Location: The Free State of Arizona | Registered: June 13, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Very nice - I had no clue this existed Smile
 
Posts: 9 | Location: DFW, TX | Registered: October 16, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
NOT compromised!
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Walther P99. A German made, striker fired , polymer framed pistol with a de-cocker. Used in a couple of James Bond films. I really enjoy this gun and have owned two, and still currently own one. Great gun, but cosistitently lost out to Glocks because Glock was always the lowest bidder.
 
Posts: 1330 | Location: Tampa Bay, Florida | Registered: July 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
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Second the HK P7. A fantastic pistol. I sorely regret parting with my M8 30 years ago.




"Live every day as if it's going to be your last, and one day, you'll be right.”
Malachy McCourt
 
Posts: 12042 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm glad to see some finally mentioned the HK VP70.

As well, I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Walther P38, Colt SAA or S&W Model 2.
 
Posts: 143 | Registered: June 29, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go Vols!
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Keltec PLR16

I am not sure it is going to be commercially successful but the design is interesting.
 
Posts: 16252 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
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quote:
Originally posted by GreenDragoon:
I'm glad to see some finally mentioned the HK VP70.

As well, I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Walther P38, Colt SAA or S&W Model 2.

Not to be a jackass, but I'm not sure the P38 really belongs there. The intent was good, but the DA trigger sucked and the safety wasn't anywhere near drop-proof. It was certainly the basis for an excellent pistol, but development really didn't get that far before better options made themselves available.
 
Posts: 24624 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Maybe more evolutionary than revolutionary, the Kel-Tec P32 inspired a host of tiny, lightweight, mostly polymer, locked breech pistols. I'd say it's moderately successful, and the Ruger LCP is a smash hit.
 
Posts: 108 | Registered: February 13, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get my pies
outta the oven!

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Kel-Tec CP33



 
Posts: 26743 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by GreenDragoon:
I'm glad to see some finally mentioned the HK VP70.

As well, I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Walther P38, Colt SAA or S&W Model 2.


Yes, from a historical perspective the list should go like this:

1- The Colt Patterson. The first repeating pistol beyond a pepperbox or Derringer, and setting the stage for truly powerful repeating revolvers like the Walker and later 44s.

2- S&W#2. First cartridge handgun and first with bored-through cylinder.

2.2- S&W#3. I’d put this far ahead of the SAA due to it’s reloading speed, but as far as innovation, I’d put neither on the list, because they are developments/refinements of earlier designs. Another innovative, but not “game-changing” was the Merwin amd Hulbert.

3. The Borchardt. It evolved into the Luger and beat the C96 to market as the first commercially produced semi-auto. I love my C96 though, but the removable magazine is a better design ultimately.

4. Browning’s large-frame (45ACP) line of pistols. They spawned the locking system used by virtually 95+% of all modern pistols, and the delayed locking blowback system is still “cutting edge.”. This translates over to the BHP too, because it is the same design locking with a ramp improvement over the link to activate the barrel’s lowering. Otherwise very similar from a mechanical standpoint.

5. Walther P-38. First large-frame double-action semi-auto service pistol, and a unique/new locking system which was copied by Beretta on the 92.

6. Sig P-210. Accuracy, trigger, reversed rail system (slide inside the frame) were innovative ideas for a service pistol.

7. HK VP70. First striker-fired, polymer-framed, super-high-capacity service pistol. The detachable buttstock with full-auto switch was pretty innovative too. This is the gun all Glocks have been based on. Glock just made the trigger 5.5-lbs instead of 16+ lbs...

8. HK PSP/P7. What was not innovative about this pistol? Always de-cocked when not gripped. Always cocked with light single-action-ish trigger when gripped. No safety to fuss with (because not needed). Very low bore axis. First night sights on a service pistol...

9. The chassis system (I learned today the P250 wasn’t the first) is another big innovation. I don’t think it’s just about serial numbers either. I’m a department armorer, and having the ability to swap grip-frames to fit new officers vs. trading in guns for new ones is a game-changer for my situation.

10. “Innovative, but serious,” the title says... The most recent to me is the mid-compact carry guns which are bigger than .380, such as the Springfield EMP or Sig P365. They are a Goldie-Locks gun: Not too big, but not too small; juuuust right. I’m not sure any particular design warrants calling out, because they are developments of prior designs, but it is their size + power that is innovative...


---------
If you appreciate private ownership of firearms, please join the NRA, before it's too late. (Benefactor Member)
 
Posts: 75 | Registered: April 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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