|We gonna get some |
oojima in this house!
I really like the skinny Glocks.
TCB all the time...
I cut my handgun teeth on a 1911 and that's what I'm comfortable with. I've shot a number of friends' Glocks over the years. I like the reliability and simplicity of them, but I just could never seem to get used to the grip angle. A friend of mine just recently picked up a Polymer80 kit, and the grip angle on it is more like a 1911 than a Glock. I gotta admit, I'm tempted to get one.
Also, when I was shopping for a thinner lighter CCW pistol last year I played with a G43 and actually liked it except that the trigger was really squishy feeling. I wound up buying a S&W Shield, but the G43 made the short list and one with a better feeling trigger would likely have found it's way into my safe.
I love 1911's.
Many 1911 afficianados simply will not believe that the Glock has the same grip angle, even when shown photographs with the grip angle overlayed, because they "feel" different." Never the less, the grip angles are the same.
The contour of the glock grip varies with the model and backstrap, but the grip angle doesn't change. The feel does, given the way it sits in the hand with differing back straps, palm swells, etc, and the location of the palm swell in relation to the palm varies from a subcompact such as a G26 to a compact such as the G19, to a full size such as the G17. Each sits in the hand differently thanks to the palm swell, but the grip angle remains the same, and matches the 1911.
Depending how one measures it, the angle may differ by a degree two, but is inconsequential. The difference is psychological.
What you're overlooking is that the arched mainspring housing effectively changes the grip angle of the 1911. This was the entire purpose of the change to the shape of the mainspring housing in the A1 version of the 1911. The arch pushes the lower edge of the rear portion of the grip forward against the heel of the hand, thus causing the muzzle to point higher, which, in effect, changes the grip angle to be less acute.
If you doubt this, try gripping- not pointing the muzzle amd aligning the sights- just gripping a 1911 with a flat MSH and then a 1911 with an arched MSH. When you then look at where the muzzle on each of these pistols is pointing, you'll find that the pistol with the arched MSH points higher.
The line you have drawn on the 1911A1 in your second pic does not take into account the effect of the arched MSH.
Glocks and 1911s point differently, and that is a fact. This is especially true with 1911s that have a flat MSH installed.
|Frangas non Flectes|
Have you handled a Gen 4 or Gen 5 without a backstrap installed? I know that was enough to help get me started down the path of changing my mind. Also, the different frame sizes have the swell on the backstrap in different points, as sns3guppy pointed out. The larger frame Glocks in 10mm and .45 feel a fair bit different than the 9mm-.40 frame size Glocks as well.
As for the angle of the 1911 and 1911A1 vs Glock, I've come to really like 1911A1's, or the arched MSH. When I pick up a 1911 with a flat MSH, it feels really odd to me. Consequently, it's not surprising to me that guys who like 1911's with flat MSH's would prefer Glock frames with the backstrap reduction, or the P80 or Timberwolf frames that lack it from the get-go.
I think Glock QC checks for proper trigger function but not for subjective feel-of-pull. I've dry-fired some that are embarrassingly squishy/mushy and others that are as crisp as aftermarket. I have a bone-stock G43 and a modded one w/ a Hyve trigger and Ghost connector (~$115 upgrade). The trigger on my base G43 feels better than the aftermarket one.
I've dry-fired many OEM G43s and other models Most have triggers that are acceptable-to-good. Some feel squishy & cheap. Occassionally you come across one (such as my base G43) that breaks so crisp that it's, 'What more could you ask for?'
I say keep looking for a G43, just make sure you can try before you buy.
Be that as it may, every time I've fired a Glock I've had to make a conscious effort to pull the front sight down to get it to line up. I don't have to do that with a 1911.
I have not. I need to do that. A 21 (S?) is something that I'm more than a little intrigued by.
^^^ The Gen 4 model 21 grip frame without the blackstrap panels is the same dimensions as the G21SF. Or so says my owner's manual. Give one a try. I rather like the heft of it that way and have medium sized hands.
|Frangas non Flectes|
This is correct. Expert308, I believe that currently, the 21 isn't being made in a Gen 5, but a Gen 4 without a backstrap might just fit the bill for you.
Yeah, that matches what I saw on Glock's web site. I don't know if they're going to do a Gen 5 21 or not, do you?. I think the only really significant differences are the lack of finger grooves and the supposedly nicer trigger on the Gen 5.
|Frangas non Flectes|
The rifling in the Gen 5 barrels is also different, they stopped using polygonal rifling, and they're reportedly more accurate. The slide lock lever is also now on both sides. I think the recoil spring assembly may also be slightly different, but I could be wrong. Gen 5 mags come with an orange follower. I think that's everything.
I believe Glock has said they aren't going to do the Gen 5's in the 20 and 21, but who knows?
Said I never would. Back when the 17's first came out in my area if you owned one you probably got it from me. A good friend of mine was an LEO then when revolvers were still mandated. He was instrumental in getting autos approved for use (off duty) and subsequently on duty. He enlisted my help because I was a dealer with an indoor range. I'll give them credit, we put the first gun through holy hell. But, as good as they worked I could never get behind a plastic striker fired gun. I carried a 1911 of one variation or other up until Sig came out with the P229. Even though I was very proficient with a 1911 I could shoot the Sig way better.
About a year ago I bought a G27 for myself and a G28 for my GF. I flat could not shoot the 27 worth a damn. She could not shoot the 28 through a whole magazine without a failure. The only reason I bought these is they were small and semi light and fit places my 229 didnt. I eneded up dumping them and I went back to my Sig and I got her a 642 S&W.
Will never buy another, but I did once
Amat Victoria Curam
You're in the United States?
Well I won't say I resisted, but have been shooting Glock for a couple or so years, and thought not quite fanboy status, I am headed that way. As parabellum said, for a utility general purpose tool that does a job, they are hard to beat. Even the looks have grown on me.
I shot an early G17 in the 80's when they first came out and liked it fine.I have never disliked them, just always wanted something else a little more when I decided to spend money on a firearm.
I actually got on this forum a few years ago to research a replacement for another all metal, hammer fired DA/SA pistol. I only recently became a "real" member by acquiring my first Sig-a polymer, striker fired, P320!
I'm curious how you managed to purchase a G28 in the United States for your girlfriend.
My apologies it was a 26
Amat Victoria Curam
Very good comparison....
What causes the biggest issue with folks is not the angle, but it is actually how their hand sits on the grip. The misconception is it is the grip angle, when in reality, it is the hump on the back strap that is causing the issue for folks.
The hump doesn't hit people in the same place, add the fact it is quite exaggerated on the earlier Gen guns and that makes things worse.
Even the angled MSH on a 1911 isn't as pronounced as the Glocks hump.
With the gen 4 and 5 guns, I typically hear fewer complaints because the grips were reduced slightly, as well as the hump.
Also the 19/23 and 26/27 guns seem to cause the most issues with the back strap hump placement.
With the hump removed on the back strap, it brings the front and back strap more in line with each other, and this cause the hands placement to shift, giving an improved grip.
The grip angle isn't changed, but the hands angle of attack has changed. It makes a world of difference in how the gun handles and feels.
Glock will eventually figure this out, and remove the hump all together.
Yes, this is the reason that I never had a grip reduction done on any of my Glocks- because it would almost certainly change the way the pistol points.
And, dang, texaspoff- I never realized that you were coldbore customs. You've stippled the grip frame on two of my Glocks- a G26 and a G17. Nice work. For anyone looking for such work to be done, Coldbore Customs does a great job.
|Fighting the good fight|
Yep. I shoot my G17s and G19s well, and carried a G17 on duty for many years. But try as I might, I just couldn't shoot the G26 well. The higher, more exaggerated hump was the culprit.
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