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SureFire DG switch: Who still likes them? Login/Join 
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted
Any complaints?
Anyone agree that they contribute to unintentional discharges?

All comments welcome. Smile




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38679 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
:^)
Picture of BillyBonesNY
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I have one and can see where sympathetic nerve response could cause you to ND.

However, proper use would dictate you don't have finger on trigger whilst using the light switch.

Which may bring into question the efficacy of the pressure pad concept in general.

I think it is a valid concern.


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Posts: 6871 | Registered: March 19, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of incogneato
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I have one, but don’t use it. I much prefer the old SL switches
 
Posts: 116 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: September 20, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not Surefire, but I do use the remote switch on a Streamlight.

I find that my accuracy is significantly better activating the light that way than by having to move my support hand toward a switch on the light. I'm sure that varies according to hand size and finger length.
 
Posts: 7465 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I really dont buy the sympathetic reaction / overflow thing for these. Not saying its impossible but I've run switches for years and I've never had it be a problem even under very serious stress.

I may sound a bit jaded but i'd be interested to find out how many of these NDs that blame holsters and switches are simply folks who blow a round off and are just trying to save face or their career. Sorry for going off on this but its an ongoing mostly friendly argument for our trainers currently.

Off that sidenote I really like the ability to slightly alter my grip tension and illuminate my target without needing to use my other hand or index on a switch. I also find activation a bit more positive and consistent when running under recoil from weird positions. They are great for people with baby hands who cant properly reach a hard switch on the light body. Lastly theres plenty of reasons you may not have more than one hand available but need light and a gun. I like the option. I'm not the end all be all though so I'd also love to hear a good argument against them.
 
Posts: 1689 | Location: Western Wa | Registered: March 21, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Report on LASD unintentional discharges. There is a section on the lights use.
http://www.bluesheepdog.com/20...-pistols-are-unsafe/


DPR
 
Posts: 425 | Registered: March 10, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Rustpot
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quote:
Originally posted by Anubismp:
I really dont buy the sympathetic reaction / overflow thing for these. Not saying its impossible but I've run switches for years and I've never had it be a problem even under very serious stress.

I may sound a bit jaded but i'd be interested to find out how many of these NDs that blame holsters and switches are simply folks who blow a round off and are just trying to save face or their career. Sorry for going off on this but its an ongoing mostly friendly argument for our trainers currently.

Off that sidenote I really like the ability to slightly alter my grip tension and illuminate my target without needing to use my other hand or index on a switch. I also find activation a bit more positive and consistent when running under recoil from weird positions. They are great for people with baby hands who cant properly reach a hard switch on the light body. Lastly theres plenty of reasons you may not have more than one hand available but need light and a gun. I like the option. I'm not the end all be all though so I'd also love to hear a good argument against them.


I believe that "slightly altered grip tension" is what gets people in trouble. Holding the pistol loosely, finger on the trigger. Grip firmly intending only to activate the light and have the trigger finger similarly grip firmly.

There are a LOT of police officers and private gun owners that don't train, or even think about their guns often. Complacency, lack of practice, many contributing factors lead to poor handling, especially under stress.

I think the pistol grip switch makes sense when it's the pistol backing up a rifle/shotgun. SWAT or officers with a primary and pistol only as an immediate backup. The pistol is being drawn only when immediately needed, and the officers are (presumably) more proficient and practiced in handling and use to where accidents are probably not a concern.
 
Posts: 5592 | Location: Romeo, MI | Registered: January 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Rustpot: Holding the pistol loosely, finger on the trigger.


That's the exact problem. If you want to use a DG switch you need to practice activating it with your index finger firmly against the frame, not in the trigger guard until the target is confirmed and you are ready to fire.
 
Posts: 7465 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've never even considered this...

I've been to 4 in depth night classes and it has never been even slightly an issue.

It may be that having JLJones yelling safety spot about 10,000 times in my ear sunk in.

All of our full sized defense pistols wear DG switches on them full time. Every class day or night and always at the range.

I actually thought you were kidding before I moved down and read the rest of the posts.


Mark
 
Posts: 4375 | Location: middle Tennessee | Registered: October 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by mark_a:
I actually thought you were kidding before I moved down and read the rest of the posts.


Some police agencies have banned their use because of concerns about unintentional discharges. If one is going to discharge one’s gun unintentionally, it’s hard to imagine a worse time than when lighting up an unidentified, only-possible threat.
I don’t necessarily believe that’s valid myself, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked the question, but the fact is that even trained officers sometimes touch their triggers when they shouldn’t.

A more significant question for me is whether having the switch would be a problem in situations when I didn’t want the light to come on. If I don’t have a proper grip on the pistol at the start of something because I’m trying to not activate the switch, would that affect my shooting?

I’ve thought about getting the switch to experiment with, but a C-note is a little pricey for just a test, so thanks for the comments.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38679 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
A more significant question for me is whether having the switch would be a problem in situations when I didn’t want the light to come on. If I don’t have a proper grip on the pistol at the start of something because I’m trying to not activate the switch, would that affect my shooting?


I don't find that to be a problem. The switches are not that sensitive.
 
Posts: 7465 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's my way or the Highway
Picture of piedrarc
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by mark_a:
I actually thought you were kidding before I moved down and read the rest of the posts.


Some police agencies have banned their use because of concerns about unintentional discharges. If one is going to discharge one’s gun unintentionally, it’s hard to imagine a worse time than when lighting up an unidentified, only-possible threat.
I don’t necessarily believe that’s valid myself, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked the question, but the fact is that even trained officers sometimes touch their triggers when they shouldn’t.

A more significant question for me is whether having the switch would be a problem in situations when I didn’t want the light to come on. If I don’t have a proper grip on the pistol at the start of something because I’m trying to not activate the switch, would that affect my shooting?

I’ve thought about getting the switch to experiment with, but a C-note is a little pricey for just a test, so thanks for the comments.


I was fortunate to recently graduate the LASD Firearms instructor school. It's clearly a training issue, some cops are dangerous with sharp pencils. LASD cadre does an excellent job on teaching the proper way to manipulate the pressure switch. Like anything else, the student needs to put in the work. I suggest you contact Surefire and see if you can T&E one for your department if you're in that particular position.


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Posts: 4883 | Location: surrounded by liberals. | Registered: September 02, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by piedrarc:
I suggest you contact Surefire and see if you can T&E one for your department if you're in that particular position.


That is a good thought; thank you for the suggestion.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38679 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Armed and Gregarious
Picture of DMF
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by piedrarc:
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by mark_a:
I actually thought you were kidding before I moved down and read the rest of the posts.


Some police agencies have banned their use because of concerns about unintentional discharges. If one is going to discharge one’s gun unintentionally, it’s hard to imagine a worse time than when lighting up an unidentified, only-possible threat.
I don’t necessarily believe that’s valid myself, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked the question, but the fact is that even trained officers sometimes touch their triggers when they shouldn’t.

A more significant question for me is whether having the switch would be a problem in situations when I didn’t want the light to come on. If I don’t have a proper grip on the pistol at the start of something because I’m trying to not activate the switch, would that affect my shooting?

I’ve thought about getting the switch to experiment with, but a C-note is a little pricey for just a test, so thanks for the comments.


I was fortunate to recently graduate the LASD Firearms instructor school. It's clearly a training issue, some cops are dangerous with sharp pencils. LASD cadre does an excellent job on teaching the proper way to manipulate the pressure switch. Like anything else, the student needs to put in the work. I suggest you contact Surefire and see if you can T&E one for your department if you're in that particular position.
Yes, it is a training issue, but the same is absolutely true for a Blackhawk Serpa holster. However, those that say that about the Serpa are often derided for pointing out that simple fact.

Whether it's the DG switch, or Serpa holster, training can mitigate, NOT eliminate the increased risk of a negligent/accidental discharge, that is inherent to BOTH devices.

As you point out, it's the "students" who must work to ensure they have mitigated the risk. Some agencies are willing to chance that everyone who chooses those devices will train properly, some won't. However, one device seems to be more accepted because it was designed for a high profile military unit.

Amazingly, the more accepted device increases chances of the user unintentionally shooting someone other than themselves, while the one more commonly ridiculed as a safety abomination increases the chances of the user unintentionally shooting themselves, not others. The general attitudes to.these two devices are illogical.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DMF,


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Posts: 12410 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
A more significant question for me is whether having the switch would be a problem in situations when I didn’t want the light to come on. If I don’t have a proper grip on the pistol at the start of something because I’m trying to not activate the switch, would that affect my shooting?


This I'm with you on and have actually practiced it a bunch to make sure I could do it. My concern then was not pulling the trigger when using the light, but being able to use the light only when I wanted it on and still shoot if necessary.

Besides all the obvious "you need to practice a lot", for me there is a much simpler answer: Don't point the gun where you don't want it to be. If you need light one should have a flashlight that is independent of the gun. This is for a lot of reasons...

Mr SigFreund, you ask interesting questions. I learn a lot from the discussions you kick off.

Mark
 
Posts: 4375 | Location: middle Tennessee | Registered: October 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of EasyFire
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While I do not have the exact setup of weapon light with DP switch, I do have 2 setups with both weapon light and laser in different configurations. One is my Sig 228R with a rail mounted Streamlight TLR3 plus a Crimson Trace grip laser. Additionally, I have a Shield with Crimson Trace combo weapon light plus laser using the pressure grip (CT’s instinctive activation) to activate the light & laser.

I find the Sig Streamlight more comfortable and useful to turn on and leave on like a separate flashlight for search and inquiry purposes. And still have the laser and trigger for immediate service.

The Shield with its requirement of constant middle finger pressure requirement to activate the light and laser gives a sense of immediacy for action that I am not quite sure I like. I fear that I may deliberately activate the trigger without full consideration of the circumstances.

EasyFire
 
Posts: 1153 | Location: Colorado | Registered: December 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I have not yet begun
to procrastinate
Picture of KMitch200
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MNSIG:
Not Surefire, but I do use the remote switch on a Streamlight.
I find that my accuracy is significantly better activating the light that way than by having to move my support hand toward a switch on the light. I'm sure that varies according to hand size and finger length.

Streamlight here too.
I took mine off after some use because the switch was too sensitive. I see many reasons why I want a firm grip on my pistol but not have the light on. I went back to the original switch.


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Posts: 2911 | Location: AZ - West side of the valley | Registered: October 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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