quote:

Originally posted by xrocket:
After following this thread and reading other threads concerning the "new" American made P210 I'm going to buy one.

After 50yrs of shooting experience and until this July when I purchased a new p365 I've never owned a 9mm firearm ... shot a few, but you read right... never owned one till last month.

Now I'll own my second 9mm to go along with my other match grade 45mm Sigs, Colts and Browns. I'm really looking forward to this new to me caliber and breaking in the P210.

All the best gents .... such is life

quote:

Originally posted by OTD:
Commercial 7.65 Luger is probably to light for having the slide cycle reliably...
Gentlemen, for the reason mentioned above I recoment to regroup your thoughs and find a different approach for such a debate if you want to compare Swiss vs American made.
Best regards form Switzerland, OTD.

quote:

Originally posted by OTD:
Commercial 7.65 Luger is probably to light for having the slide cycle reliably. You probably would need something with a standard load like a PP03. It’s a nice round but the combination with such a gun would be pretty counter productive because it would limit its use to either pseudo benchrest shooting or international center fire pistol matches. For the latter one the P210 of any type is outdated for almost 40 years and the reason for the short lived .32cal P240.


The problem we always are running into with such debates over old Swiss vs recent German or new American made is the lack of technological know how about metal transformation per se. “THE touch” we gather form staring at a gun and comparing the sound of the slide when racking it is not sufficient for an objective argumentation because we are running out of arguments too soon. If you want to judge such differences you will have to have at least a basic idea about the material types used, the work flow concept and the technology used, because without it, such a debate is pointless. No such information has been provided in any reliable source which published anything about SIG firearms made in Neuhausen, neither Vetter, nor Döbeli, nor Armbruster nor DWJ nor anybody else.

This leaves to me the conclusion that each of us is drawing his own romantic picture of the grand pa like gun smith who is hand fitting the P210, make an experienced master gun smith out of him and add emotional attributes like “pride in craftsmanship” to it because this is the technology we can understand and conclude better “quality” for that reason. This romantic though anyhow is in contradiction to the specification the P210 had to be produced, which made industrial manufacturing necessary in order to guarantee a 100% interchargeablity of parts if they wanted to fill the contracts for Switzerland, Denmark, Germany and Sweden. Such concepts demand production concepts in which “as much as possible to a quality the customer is willing to pay” could be made. SIG outsourced a lot of its products including the P210 for that reason, which would made quality control the way we are expecting it difficult. Nowadays it’s made inhouse in Eckernförde and as an improved version in Exeter under direct control of the responsible people on state of the art equipment with materials optimized for the end product.

Gentlemen, for the reason mentioned above I recoment to regroup your thoughs and find a different approach for such a debate if you want to compare Swiss vs American made.

Best regards form Switzerland, OTD.

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

I’ve owned SEVERAL US made Sigs, thank you. Maybe more than yourself. So it’s snobbish to disagree that the cheapened P210A is the finest in American Gun manufacturing? Give me a damn break. I can tell quality in an instant by picking it up. I’m not saying it’s a bad quality gun.

No, it's snobbish to never miss an opportunity to rain down on people's parade, when they praise the P210A. Everyone here knows that. And, the bullshit "I can tell quality in an instant by picking it up" is just that, bullshit. It tells folks nothing. Just because you own the most expensive guns out there doesn't mean that thinking folks have to take your words for it. It's like when you hear many people paint the broad brush, "German made SIGs are quality, and US made SIGs are junk".

So, I'll ask you again, have you tested it against your coveted Euro P210s, and what were the results? And, in another thread, you said you don't think it's a fine gun. And here, you say it's not a bad quality gun. So, what is it?

Tested what?

I’m not talking about accuracy. I have NO DOUBT that the P210A can duplicate the other P210 performance. So can my $1100 CZ TS. If accuracy is all you want, go buy a CZ.

What’s your point? You don’t even know what the hell you’re talking about. Yes I can tell the quality by picking it up and handling it. If you actually had experience with high end guns, maybe you could as well. It’s not “bullshit”. I’ve been doing it for decades and have made tens of thousands in the high end gun business.

I’m sorry to hurt your feeling. Go sell your 50 Rugers and spend the money on a nice 1970’s Sig P210-6 or -5 while you can still get them under ten grand. You’ll thank me later.

quote:

Originally posted by loony888:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

I’ve owned SEVERAL US made Sigs, thank you. Maybe more than yourself. So it’s snobbish to disagree that the cheapened P210A is the finest in American Gun manufacturing? Give me a damn break. I can tell quality in an instant by picking it up. I’m not saying it’s a bad quality gun.

No, it's snobbish to never miss an opportunity to rain down on people's parade, when they praise the P210A. Everyone here knows that. And, the bullshit "I can tell quality in an instant by picking it up" is just that, bullshit. It tells folks nothing. Just because you own the most expensive guns out there doesn't mean that thinking folks have to take your words for it. It's like when you hear many people paint the broad brush, "German made SIGs are quality, and US made SIGs are junk".

So, I'll ask you again, have you tested it against your coveted Euro P210s, and what were the results? And, in another thread, you said you don't think it's a fine gun. And here, you say it's not a bad quality gun. So, what is it?

Tested what?

I’m not talking about accuracy. I have NO DOUBT that the P210A can duplicate the other P210 performance. So can my $1100 CZ TS. If accuracy is all you want, go buy a CZ.

What’s your point? You don’t even know what the hell you’re talking about. Yes I can tell the quality by picking it up and handling it. If you actually had experience with high end guns, maybe you could as well. It’s not “bullshit”. I’ve been doing it for decades and have made tens of thousands in the high end gun business.

I’m sorry to hurt your feeling. Go sell your 50 Rugers and spend the money on a nice 1970’s Sig P210-6 or -5 while you can still get them under ten grand. You’ll thank me later.

OMG really?
yeah accuracy is what i want in a pistol, and it's MUCH better to have an option to buy an american made product vs no offering at all. I think the CNC Stainless construction with it's Nitron finish is gorgeous, and is well and truly made in the same philosophy as the originals from Switzerland and Germany, with Mass (relatively speaking) production adhering to the historical reputation of the gun.

It seems to me that yes, you're gun snob and more than that you're butt hurt that the American version with it's universally accepted slide release, safety and mag release that are very user friendly as well as the quality for the price makes a mockery of collectors who have the swiss and german versions which no doubt are fine weapons but highly valued because of their rarity more than anything else.

Me, i'll take a brand new CNC'ed accurate pistol with spares availability and exceptional quality at a realistic price over an old pistol valued because of it's rarity more than anything else any day.

Collect your old hard to get guns and enjoy them, that's ok, but just like everything else time marches on and production techniques make it much easier to manufacture a quality product at a reasonable price point, it's not the consumers fault you're heavily invested in a "collectible" gun that now has an available equivalent at a much lower price point.

I love mine, it does everything i expect of it and i for one see no point in lusting after an old possibly worn out rare gun that i can't get parts for and would be afraid to use. mine has a warranty and has been reliable, accurate and is so much fun to shoot, i'm not a gun snob so what it is makes me happy, be happy with what you like, but don't denigrate others for their choices....

quote:

Originally posted by loony888:
I'll take advice on forum etiquette from almost anyone else, but thanks for the input.

Nice to see you no longer refer to them as "American SIG junk"

quote:

Originally posted by loony888:
I'll take advice on forum etiquette from almost anyone else, but thanks for the input.