Battle of Britain Colt New Service Revolver *Update 08-16-2020: Pg. 2 w/ Colt Historical Letter*
Attached are some photos of my most recent purchase - a 1937 Colt New Service revolver in .38 Special. Supposedly, this is one of a number of US firearms acquired by the British Purchasing Commission from various US firearms manufacturers in July 1940 when a German invasion appeared imminent. There are no British proof marks however, only a single acceptance stamp on the upper left side of the frame. The barrel is 4" while the finish is the familiar green/grey parkerization. I've sent to Colt for a factory letter which will hopefully corroborate the story.
1937 Colt New Service
This message has been edited. Last edited by: hjs157,
May 20, 2020, 08:25 AM
RogueJSK
Cool find. Has it been reparkerized?
May 20, 2020, 08:43 AM
kidcop
Excellent. I'd carry it.
May 20, 2020, 08:51 AM
hjs157
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK: Cool find. Has it been reparkerized?
I suspect the original finish was Colt's pre-war commercial blue since the BPC guns were purchased directly from existing inventory. The seller claims similar revolvers of this type have been observed with a parkerized finish, though it is unclear if it was applied in England or after the revolver was repatriated.
May 20, 2020, 09:29 AM
YooperSigs
Very cool! I thought most of the revolvers we shipped to the Brits were 38.200
End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
May 20, 2020, 10:42 AM
David Lee
Wow. The revolver is all but perfect. I would like to find a nice condition War Horse like that.
May 20, 2020, 11:22 AM
1KPerDay
Gorgeous!
--------------------------- My hovercraft is full of eels.
May 20, 2020, 01:05 PM
Il Cattivo
quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs: Very cool! I thought most of the revolvers we shipped to the Brits were 38.200
I'm sorry I can't give you a citation, but an article in a past edition of The American Rifleman mentioned that the first shipments were "whatever was available", including .38 Specials. At some point the same source mentioned that Winchesters in .44-40 were shipped over and assigned to the Home Guard, or "Dad's Army", but those were apparently not uncommon in the British Empire.
May 20, 2020, 01:58 PM
JohnnyD
That is really cool!
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USAF/ANG Retired
May 20, 2020, 03:04 PM
pulicords
Beautiful. I love firearms with a history.
"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
May 20, 2020, 03:44 PM
captain127
quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs: Very cool! I thought most of the revolvers we shipped to the Brits were 38.200
Those guns produced and made via contract were 38/200 aka 38 S&W But the “British purchasing commission” or “battle of Britain” guns were literally anything in inventory! My Clawson big book notes a listing including revolvers in .22,.32,38,44-40,44 special 45 acp and 45 Colt, including both standard and target models of the single action Army And autoloaders in 32,380,38 super and 45
May 20, 2020, 03:53 PM
Jim Watson
I read a quote from the memoirs of a Home Guardsman... "A Pony Colt and three cartridges..." That one was a .32-20
May 20, 2020, 06:29 PM
divil
quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs: Very cool! I thought most of the revolvers we shipped to the Brits were 38.200
Most were but in 1940 the Brits bought every revolver they could from Colt regardless of caliber, sorry Calibre.
That is a sweet revolver, a truly excellent find. I hope a range report is forthcoming. I hope to someday have a Colt New Service in .38 Special.
May 20, 2020, 06:44 PM
rangemaster
I’ve always wanted a shorter barrel New Service! What a gem.
May 20, 2020, 06:57 PM
j38
Great find! I used to own a Colt New Service in .357 caliber. It was a little bigger than a S&W N frame - quite a handful. Shooting .38 spl in that gun would be like shooting BBs. Thanks for the post.
Jerry
May 22, 2020, 02:23 PM
hjs157
quote:
Originally posted by j38: Great find! I used to own a Colt New Service in .357 caliber. It was a little bigger than a S&W N frame - quite a handful. Shooting .38 spl in that gun would be like shooting BBs.
Indeed. At ~40 oz. the Colt New Service is a hefty revolver. For those who haven't held one, picture a slightly smaller Ruger Redhawk in .38 Special. I suspect recoil will be negligible.
May 23, 2020, 07:08 AM
Scooter123
That appears to be re-finished and the British were and still are VERY fussy about proofs and proof marks. I just do not think that it's possible for a lend-lease revolver to have made it to England without being proof marked. Finally there is the Caliber, it's wrong. During WWII ALL British service revolvers used a variant of the 38 S&W cartridge called the 38/200. The 38 S&W while similar to 38 special it is not dimensionally related to the 38 Special. In fact 38 special ammunition will NOT chamber in a 38 S&W revolver and the 38 S&W will not chamber in a 38 Special revolver. The 38 S&W case diameter is larger at 0.3855/.3865, the bullets are larger 0.361 inch, and the case length is much shorter. Note, some 38/200 bring backs will chamber a 38 special due to a chamber reaming job but the larger diameter chambers on the 38 S&W portion can cause the 38 special case to split and the larger bore causes accuracy to be very poor with tumbling seen frequently. Collectors regard any 38/200 bring back that will chamber a 38 special as a Parts Gun, not anything of value.
As for the statement about the British taking anything they could get, in private hands that may be the case but there is the matter of the missing proof marks. The British required that every single imported firearm be proof marked. Even today the British require that any barrel that has been re-worked in some fashion be submitted for re-proofing, even if the repair is something as simple as tapping out a dent in a shotgun barrel. For Service revolvers my information is the only calibers accepted were the .455 Webley and the 38/200.
While it's an attractive old revolver it is not a collectable revolver. Hopefully you didn't pay too much for it. Because what you were told isn't true. As for value, that can be hard to pin down with a re-finish but at a guess I wouldn't pay more than 300 dollars for this revolver.
I've stopped counting.
May 23, 2020, 09:21 AM
hjs157
quote:
Originally posted by Scooter123: That appears to be re-finished and the British were and still are VERY fussy about proofs and proof marks. I just do not think that it's possible for a lend-lease revolver to have made it to England without being proof marked. Finally there is the Caliber, it's wrong. During WWII ALL British service revolvers used a variant of the 38 S&W cartridge called the 38/200. The 38 S&W while similar to 38 special it is not dimensionally related to the 38 Special. In fact 38 special ammunition will NOT chamber in a 38 S&W revolver and the 38 S&W will not chamber in a 38 Special revolver. The 38 S&W case diameter is larger at 0.3855/.3865, the bullets are larger 0.361 inch, and the case length is much shorter. Note, some 38/200 bring backs will chamber a 38 special due to a chamber reaming job but the larger diameter chambers on the 38 S&W portion can cause the 38 special case to split and the larger bore causes accuracy to be very poor with tumbling seen frequently. Collectors regard any 38/200 bring back that will chamber a 38 special as a Parts Gun, not anything of value.
As for the statement about the British taking anything they could get, in private hands that may be the case but there is the matter of the missing proof marks. The British required that every single imported firearm be proof marked. Even today the British require that any barrel that has been re-worked in some fashion be submitted for re-proofing, even if the repair is something as simple as tapping out a dent in a shotgun barrel. For Service revolvers my information is the only calibers accepted were the .455 Webley and the 38/200.
While it's an attractive old revolver it is not a collectable revolver. Hopefully you didn't pay too much for it. Because what you were told isn't true. As for value, that can be hard to pin down with a re-finish but at a guess I wouldn't pay more than 300 dollars for this revolver.
It is well documented in June 1940 the British Purchasing Commission, with Winchester acting as their agent, purchased most any serviceable handgun in commercial US inventory. This included a wide array of pistols and revolvers in calibers other than .38/200. There are actually documented Colt SAA's from this order. These BPC guns were obtained as a stop-gap measure after the British defeat at Dunkirk and pre-date the Lend-Lease program by 9 months. The question however isn't whether or not the BPC guns exist, but rather if my revolver was part of the purchase. While the the refinish on my revolver is of unknown origin, other parkerized 4" Colt New Service .38 Special revolvers from the BPC shipment are known to exist. My forthcoming Colt historical letter should confirm or disprove the provenance.
May 23, 2020, 12:01 PM
RFSALES
This is a New Service .357 shipped to England in 1940.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: hjs157, 