Given that by definition one cannot prove a negative, you're correct; there is no evidence, nor shall there be.

My assertion that I will likely never shoot either one to destruction or until its worn out, however, is as close to a certainty as I'll get.

quote:

You'll be shooting the G21 long after the P227 is worn out and done, too.

I don't think that's a negative that can't be proved. It's postulated as a statement of fact. Sadly there are very few long term test of guns that one can look at. Todd Green has done some really good ones like the P30 one that inspired me to buy one. But in his work glock was nothing special compared to HK (he didn't do a SIG) But when the government contract standard terms is generally a life of 25K rounds you wouldn't expect mfg. to spend a ton of money making guns last longer when as you say the average consumer will never get to that.

An HK 45 Compact Tactical is on my list.

What is the street price of the H-K 45C? The one with nite sights and 3 mags.

I have both. The ergonomics on the HK45C is better and it shoots well, but the DA trigger is atrocious. The HK's SA trigger isn't bad though. The DA/SA trigger on the P227 is way better and it is accurate. It's basically a toss up, but I would probably choose the HK45C if I could only have one of the two.

quote:

Originally posted by Art in Colorado:
What is the street price of the H-K 45C? The one with nite sights and 3 mags.

They were originally over a thousand. I just picked up a gently used one for under 500, and I think I saw them on bud's new for about 700.

the HK45C is a HK UPS 45 Compact that's a little more rounded off, but essentially the same pistol. Same mags. The front of the slide is angled slightly and it feels a bit less blocky, but it's the same pistol.

I actually find that I prefer the grip for retention on the USP.

I got a bit of sand in the USP a few years ago. I was in a cave, the pistol was holstered and (I thought) protected, and covered, but when I went to break it down later, the slide was locked solid. It took some time, and however the sand did it, it locked that pistol up like I've not seen before.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by Art in Colorado:
What is the street price of the H-K 45C? The one with nite sights and 3 mags.

I got a bit of sand in the USP a few years ago. I was in a cave, the pistol was holstered and (I thought) protected, and covered, but when I went to break it down later, the slide was locked solid. It took some time, and however the sand did it, it locked that pistol up like I've not seen before.

That right there is scary! Wonder if it would have shot? Probably...

OK I'm willing to do one of those silly tests you see all the cool glock guys do. What exactly kind of sand are we talking about? And how exactly do I expose the gun. I have seen many of the military tests on these guns and sand and dirt generally don't bother them in the least. So let me give it a shot. Bury it? (doesn't seem like a holstered gun), sprinkle it on a holstered gun? Let me know how to replicate this and I'll give it a shot. You don't say what USP but I've a bunch so let me know.

USP 45 Compact, and it wasn't a test. It failed anyway.

The HK junkies get really wrapped around the axle when they hear that.

I've a bunch, too.

This reminds me of the Serpa holster!!! During a training session a guy rolled in the snow, getting some snow in the holster lock, and they could not get the gun out! At least the HK would function for one shot in this case, maybe shake loose for more.

I have a. P227, bought it when they first came out. With the exception of the extended mags, the gun has been flawless and for a double stack 45, I found the grip to be very managable.

I’ve owned and do own numerous P220s and I don’t really see the reason people seem to be down on the P227 and so keen on the P220 by comparison. The two seem pretty similar with the exception of capacity.

I can understand comparing it to the HK45, since they are both double stack 45s. I have owned both the USP 45 and the HK45, both I’ve sold and I still have my P227. I found the former to have a much larger bulkier feel than the P227. Not as much to my liking.

Of course HK has been making both for years and years.

I had an HK45C.

It was a fantastic shooter, great size for carry, great ergos, etc. I traded it for an HK P30 because I was getting out of .45 but kind of regret it (and I own more .45s now than I ever did).

With the current price reductions, you cant go wrong with the HK, there is nothing not to like. If you are looking for a carry gun, the choice for me would be the HK45C hands down.

Personally my favorite carry .45 is the Glock 30s, but between the two pistols you asked about, go HK.

I had the HK45C and traded it for the 227SAS.
The HK just didn't fit my hand. Seemed a little top heavy.

The 227SAS fits and shoots super fine.

RC

quote:

The HK junkies get really wrapped around the axle when they hear that

To be fair the /INSERT GUNNUT FANBOI/ Get really wrapped around the axel when their chosen one has a failure somewhere.

Me I like to know failure points in everything. It’s easier to know how to fix stuff when it inevitably breaks if you already have a point of ref.

I think folks tend to dismiss how easily it is to cause a firearm to fail. These are machines working with very tight tolerances and a few grains of sand in the wrong spot can wreak havoc on any of them. The great majority of modern firearms are unbelievably reliable, so much so that we have people put them through insane torture tests for giggles. That being said, and you see it in these tests, a few random grains of grit finding its way to just the wrong spot will kill a trigger, lock up a slide, kill your takedown levers, jame your magazine follower, slow or stop your hammer etc. etc. etc.

If you think your HK, GLOCK, Other Teutonic wunderpistol of choice, revolver etc. is not susceptible to this, then you are living a dream. Hell sharp sticks break all the time.