quote:

Originally posted by clayshooter:
DAK-style optional reset point being the big requested feature ....

That's interesting because it is exactly the thing that I miss about my DAKs when I shoot my P250. If it happens, I hope it will be possible to retrofit current pistols with the feature.

In any event it's good to know that there are users out there who appreciate the value of the DAK's short trigger reset option and who make their wishes known. Of course if it does happen, we'll have to put up with all the idiotic complaints about "two trigger pulls" all over again.

As for a DA/SA 250, that struck me as unlikely the first time I saw one being disassembled. I'm no SIG design engineer, but I couldn't see how it would be very feasible. Now that I own one myself, it seems even less likely. Then there's my opinion that the DA/SA trigger system is going the way of the dinosaur. It won't happen soon, but it will happen, IMNSHO.

For whatever it may signify, SIG no longer covers the Pro series in its armorer certification courses, but the P250 is already the subject of a separate one day class.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
That's interesting because it is exactly the thing that I miss about my DAKs when I shoot my P250. If it happens, I hope it will be possible to retrofit current pistols with the feature.

In any event it's good to know that there are users out there who appreciate the value of the DAK's short trigger reset option and who make their wishes known. Of course if it does happen, we'll have to put up with all the idiotic complaints about "two trigger pulls" all over again.

As for a DA/SA 250, that struck me as unlikely the first time I saw one being disassembled. I'm no SIG design engineer, but I couldn't see how it would be very feasible. Now that I own one myself, it seems even less likely. Then there's my opinion that the DA/SA trigger system is going the way of the dinosaur. It won't happen soon, but it will happen, IMNSHO.

For whatever it may signify, SIG no longer covers the Pro series in its armorer certification courses, but the P250 is already the subject of a separate one day class.

I agree with you on all points here, so it wasn't a surprise to me, either, when we were told unofficially that the Pro will be on its way out of the US commercial market and that the DA/SA action for the 250 is off the boards at this time. I don't disagree with them on these things. Their feeling was, like yours, that the DA/SA is not an in-demand action type for a P250 (or the market in general at the time?), but that feedback at the Academy was instead pointing to the mid-way DAK style reset point for the current light and smooth DAO action, as long as it is not made heavier or less smooth for some reason by the addition of the mid-way reset point feature.

I had the same question as you do---Could a current 250 be retro-fitted in the future? The answer at the Academy was that they would have no idea, whatsoever, as Sig designers would be trying to include that feature with minimal added complexity and modifications to current parts and design and that feature add is only being worked on at the point, so there's no way to say (at least by the Academy folks) whether that feature would be able to be a retrofit of piece(s) to an early model P250. Like you, I'd be all over a mid-way DAK-style P250 action with the same light primary trigger pull as the current version.

I'm not sure where all of the sources of the feedback are from that they were referring to, but I would tend to believe at least a lot of it is from their classes at the Academy where they are using P250's extensively as well as the instructors there who really put these things through their paces. I'm sure they get a lot of customer feedback in various other ways, as well, outside of the Academy.

If you look at the patent description of the trigger sytem, you can see it in fact can be converted to DA/SA type system. I say "type" because it describes a longer initial pull, then a second much shorter reset point if you wish. Then by letting the trigger all the way back out it decocks itself to a safe position. similar to DAK in theory. Look up "Thomele, Adrian swiss arms patent on google.

I have been getting "up to speed" on the P250 over the last 8 weeks since it arrived. I must say, as the instructors at the Academy reiterated many times,.."the more you use it, the more you'll like it". This adage seems to be true.

That being said, I wouldn't count the DA/SA mechanism out at all. Just as with the 1911 platform, it is not administrator friendly, not for the occassional shooter, but is extremely effective and safe in experienced hands. My 229 Elite is a beautiful piece of equipment, and the DA/SA on the Sigs is about as nice as it gets.

With the DAO trigger and the interchangeable grips and calibers, the 250 could possibly be the ideal law enforcement pistol. Simple to use and can be customized for different missions;subcompact 9mm for back up, compact frame for plainclothes, full size for patrol. If someone produces an aftermarket grip with the exact same ergos as a 228 or 226......

I've been a member here for a little while now, but have spent most of that time reading posts and not posting so much. I attribute this a lot to the fact that up until today I've never owned a Sig Sauer firearm. I purchased my first Sig today, a P250 9mm compact.

I was very impressed/intrigued with the concept of the P250 and the modular design that could allow for change in caliber and frame size. It feels great in my (large) hand and overall seems like an excellent firearm, well thought out and well manufactured. Disassembly and reassembly is a breeze.

I just picked it up this afternoon and have yet to fire it. I hope to get out to the range asap (if winter ever ends here in Vermont) and run it through it's paces.

-Kyle

Gun Tests has a comparison test of the SIG P250c, the Glock G17, and the H&K P2000 LEM (Ver 2) in the April issue.

Among other things, they reiterate praise for the P250's "smooth" DAO trigger.

quote:

If a DAO pistol is your choice of handgun, the quality of the Sig Sauer trigger combined with its crystal-clear sights can make up for shortcomings elsewhere.

quote:

Putting aside the versatility of its modular design and focusing solely on how our test pistol performed, we thought the precision of its DAO trigger nearly redefined the concept. The major negative we found was muzzle flip hurt the gun's ability to be fired quickly.

Somewhat ironically, their instrumented tests refute the idea that it can't be fired quickly. In fact, in their action test, it turned in the best performance.

Great publication, by the way. And they just revamped their website to make it a tremendous resource. I highly recommend people pick up a subscription.

If anybody knows of a SiG Dealer who has the P250 display with all the differnt grip frames in CT, MA area, let me know.

Looking at possibly fitting the MRS for a 250, and want her to try it out.


THANKS

Whats the latest on the Full size and Subcompact frames. I have seen neither on the sig site and not many from shot. I would love to get a fullsize and subcompact frame.

I have fired my 250 in IDPA type competitions twice and have to say I am impressed. I didnt do as well the second match because I threw a shot. When I did my annual qual I shot much better with my issue 220 DA/SA. I think a lot of it has to do with the inticipation of the reset pull. I have practiced complete release of the trigger between pulls. It seems to give just the magic amount of time for the gun to align from the recoil and to get a quick glance of the front sight. I practiced this with my airsoft 226 and found fast follow up shots without trigger slap. I also noticed that I didnt get the blisters on the trigger finger after several hundred shots with the finger riding the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by ScrappyJack:
Gun Tests has a comparison test of the SIG P250c, the Glock G17, and the H&K P2000 LEM (Ver 2) in the April issue.

Among other things, they reiterate praise for the P250's "smooth" DAO trigger.

quote:

If a DAO pistol is your choice of handgun, the quality of the Sig Sauer trigger combined with its crystal-clear sights can make up for shortcomings elsewhere.

quote:

Putting aside the versatility of its modular design and focusing solely on how our test pistol performed, we thought the precision of its DAO trigger nearly redefined the concept. The major negative we found was muzzle flip hurt the gun's ability to be fired quickly.

Somewhat ironically, their instrumented tests refute the idea that it can't be fired quickly. In fact, in their action test, it turned in the best performance.

Great publication, by the way. And they just revamped their website to make it a tremendous resource. I highly recommend people pick up a subscription.

I've got to go back and re-read that one now. I do remember them liking it, but excessive muzzle flip?

I thought one of the big selling points of this gun was its lack of flip.

Now I've also got to go back and re-read Sigfreund's range reports as I thought he felt the gun had a mimimalistic recoil.

cc

If shot split times mean anything, the P250 had no more muzzle flip than any of my other 9mm SIGs. Maybe the reviewer was used to a 9mm P226ST or the like. Either that or he fell into the same mistake I did when I first fired the gun.

Because it's so much lighter than even a gun with an aluminium frame, there's a tendency to handle the P250 like a toy or airsoft gun and not grip it as firmly. Without a proper grip the muzzle will of course flip and rotate off target more during rapid fire strings. Once I realized what I was doing (or, more accurately, not doing), I had the same results in rapid fire with the 250 as with my P226 and P229.

Would like to see a full size 5inch 250 with threaded barrel option.

quote:

Now I've also got to go back and re-read Sigfreund's range reports as I thought he felt the gun had a mimimalistic recoil.

I can't speak for Sigfreund, but from my perspective the recoil is light and muzzle flip is not a particular problem. While I'm no shooting star, I can fire the 250 as rapidly and accurately as any of my double action guns.

I certainly don't think I can fire a P250 as fast as a Glock, just simply due to the massive differences in their triggers, but on the other hand I don't think that the 250 has any more muzzle flip or felt recoil than any P-series aluminum frame Sig. It flips about the same as a 228 or 229-9mm, as far as I can tell, which is to say it flips some, and certainly more than a Glock, but it's a non-issue and certainly not a problem. The P250 feels very comfortable and easy to handle like any P-series Sig.

Yes because the angle of the glock grip puts all the recoil in the wrist. Also the low bore axis has a lot to do with that too. I have found that my sigs grip angle and higher bore axis is more comfortable to shoot and the recoil more predictable. My sigs muzzle goes up and right back down in the same area everytime. I have seen the smaller glock 40s stovepipe in the cold due to the abuse they put on smaller shooters hands.

quote:

Somewhat ironically, their instrumented tests refute the idea that it can't be fired quickly. In fact, in their action test, it turned in the best performance.

It's not the putter. It's the putterer. It's not the driver, it's the driverer. It's not the 1-iron, it's the......well, it is the 1-iron.

quote:

Originally posted by jehzsa:
It's not the putter. It's the putterer. It's not the driver, it's the driverer. It's not the 1-iron, it's the......well, it is the 1-iron.

Absolutely, but even still, the 250's trigger is a lot different than more familiar guns, so it takes a little time to get up to speed with it. By the end of my last Sig Academy class using a 250, I'd say I was shooting the 250 about as well as I can shoot any of my DA/SA Sigs, but still not quite as proficiently as I can with my Glocks. I would never discount a P250 because of any kind of belief that it is "too slow" to shoot. Actually, I bet that with more time with the 250, I'd run it at least as well or better than I do my DA/SA Sigs. The trigger is fantastic and one whole heluva' lot better than any DA pull on any DA/SA Sigs I've ever fired.

quote:

The trigger is fantastic and one whole heluva' lot better than any DA pull on any DA/SA Sigs I've ever fired.

I'll drink to that. There's only one other gun that I've handled that had a sweeter stock trigger, the ASAI, and the P250's comes very darn close to it.

If with use it loosens up more....wow!

Qualified with the 250 today. I threw the very first shot from the 25, then settled down and put every other round where they were supposed to go. I'm usually rock solid from the 25 and I usually screw up from the fifteen during the phase where reloading and engaging multiple targets take place. What gets me excited about this pistol is that I'm still getting to know it and definitely feel that groups are going to get tighter. The 250 is definitely a home run for SIG.

For those on the Forum not familiar with Gun Tests magazine (and internet site), it is well worth the time and cost. They take NO advertising, and are the only "gun rag" that will rip apart a product if they have any problems, don't find proper performance etc.My impression has been that they are very fair and balanced in there very thorough testing protocols.

The review of the P250 is very interesting (APRIL 08). The P250 , as noted above, actually turned in the FASTEST split times (Glock 17 and HK LEM being the comparison pistols). They loved the trigger, and as above, the muzzle flip is an early issue that seems to fade with use and adaptation. I still am wedded to a 229Elite for IDPA like events and carry, but the more I practice with the 250, the more I am liking it.