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A quote from American COP magazine, "This gun is designed to be a no nonsense workhorse with ease of operation and simplicity foremost. I noted a few folks on the web saying they thought it was ugly. That’s just stupid. It’s about form following function and when this gun gets you through a bad day, you’ll think it’s absolutely gorgeous." Sig P239 9mm AR-15 M4, A3 Springfield XD9 P226 traded "Better to die on your feet than live on your knees"-Emiliano Zapata |
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Nice vid on DRTV. However, I thought with all the delay and secretness from sig that there would be some shooting, a review, and maybe a look at the other models.
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Sharp Eyes, Quick Reflexes  |
It is an answer to two "questions": The dominance of Glock. Glock owns 50% of the market for LEO weapons and likely an equal amount of civilian pistol sales. There are a number of reasons for this, but it really comes down to market perception and price - Glocks are like the Toyota of the industry with fairly low prices AND a stellar reputation for durability. So SIG needed to make a pistol that can compete pound for pound against Glocks at the same price point. They were never going to do that with weapons featuring billet slides, so they had to go polymer. The variety problem. Ask 10 shooters what makes the perfect pistol, and you will get 11 different answers. Until now, solving the variety problem has required designing, testing, producing and stocking dozens of different variations on the company's basic platform. This is expensive, inefficient and very slow. With the P250 platform, SIG needs only to release a handful of components; users will be able to mix-n-match to build their ideal firearm. A lot of people think that this is about aftermarket caliber or weapon size changes, but that is only half the battle. The P250's modular architecture allows SIG to carry literally hundreds of different firearms while only needing to build a couple of dozen different components. Those debates about rails, beavertails or finger grooves? Gone - you'll be able to get a grip shell with or without those features as you desire. I also see no reason why grip shells can't be milled from aluminum for those who like all metal guns. The platform also allows two other cool tricks to happen: - SIG can work with partners to create grip shells with cool integrated technology. Imagine a Crimson Trace shell with a fully integrated laser or a Sure Fire shell with the light neatly embedded in the "frame." - Your new pistol is now future proof. I have no idea what innovations are coming down the road for centerfire pistols, but with the 250, SIG can integrate future technologies into the platform without having to re-design current products. Those changes can propagate to the current user population just by buying a new component. ------------------------ Are you now, or have you ever been, a liberal? |
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Member |
That's a very interesting point of view. Hopefully we'll see some of that! WE WIN 06.26.2008 WE LOSE 11.04.2008 |
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That price tag is very steep to me. If my agency approves it, I'll probobly still get a full size, and compact 45. Although thats because they only authorize Sig. I'd rather carry a Glock though.
If you can read, thank a teacher. If it's in english, thank a soldier. |
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I bought my Sig 226 years ago. Have not bought any other Sig since. Why? The hollow spring rod tube. Everybody can say all they want it does not matter, there is no load on the spring, all the technical bla, BUT when you have smilar pistols with a SOLID spring rod and a HOLLOW spring rod that have same price that just me make doubt Sig practices. I tell you what to those that say it does not matter! You send me your SOLID factory P226 spring rod and I will send you my HOLLOW spring rod. Then call Sig to give you a refund as the pistol you purchased has a HOLLOW rod, or better yet exchange it.
You guessed it, the P250 is not on my list. Enough said Chris |
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Web Clavin Extraordinaire |
Whatever floats your boat. But that is one of THE stupidest things i've ever heard here. So it works 100% the same and uses less material. Riiiiiiiight. That's a bad thing. Oat ---------------------------- Chuck Norris put the laughter in "manslaughter" Educating the youth of America, one declension at a time.  |
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Member |
Uhhh. No. Not really. Just worked on several large ERP software implementations for Glaxo Smithkline Beecham, Wyeth Ayerst, Sterling Drug, and Whitehall Robins. Our team who designed their chart of accounts saw where the expenses were going. __________________________________________________________________________________________ "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions; they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams 1770 |
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Sharp Eyes, Quick Reflexes |
Do you like capitalism? One of capitalism's edicts is that businesses need to continually increase their earnings. There are various methods for doing this, but cutting production costs, while maintaining quality is one of the most efficient ways of accomplishing this goal. SIG switching to HOLLOW (Oh, the humanity!) guide rods is a textbook example of how to accomplish this goal properly. The hollow rods cost less to produce, are 100% as reliable as the solid rods they replaced and they make the weapon weigh less. I have a combined round count of roughly 15,000 through a P229 and P226 with these god forsaken hollow rods, and not a single non-ammo related failure. So what is the problem? Why are you so indignant about this? It isn't like someone poured sugar in your gas tank or something... ------------------------ Are you now, or have you ever been, a liberal? |
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Member |
TWO WORDS after seeing that video: FREAKIN' AWESOME! I wonder if they could make a slim single stack 9mm out of that thing? Walther seems to be doing very well with their PPS. Karma: what goes around, comes around! |
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Member |
I agree 100% also. I can't for the life of me think why you'd be that upset over a freaking hollow guiderod. Unbelievable! "Clear eyes full hearts can't lose!" |
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Member |
I don't want to get further into this, but the bottom line is that I feel cheated by Sig. They pride themselves in engineering excellence, while a hollow rod is not. This is cutting cost winning over technology. The Sig was designed in the 70's with a solid rod. To get it straight I had Glock, HK and the Walter P99. Sold them all kept the Sigs for their engineering excellence......and the way they shoot and feel.
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Sharp Eyes, Quick Reflexes |
I learned something a few years ago that took my head for a loop; making something of exceedingly high quality with an exceedingly high price tag is, all in all, a relatively easy thing to do. Free from the constraints of building something to a price point, engineers have a pretty easy time of things as they can use materials and manufacturing techniques that easily exceed any imaginable specs. True engineering excellence comes about when you place price constraints on an engineering team but still demand the same levels of performance and reliability. That is the point where your team needs to get very very cleaver and crafty and this is where real engineering excellence begins to shine through. Do you know what the McLaren F1 is? At the end of the century defined by the invention of the automobile, the McLaren F1 was (and many still consider it to be) the epitome of what an automobile could be. New, they cost a little over $1 Million. Now, it took a team of between 75 and 100 engineers to cook the McLaren up (with support from a handful of engineers working a supplier companies like BMW and Brembo). From concept to the first customer car took about 5 years. The Toyota Camary engineering team is comprised of about 750 dedicated engineers who are supported by the resources provided by another 2000 general engineers at Toyota. The Camary has a life cycle of 7 years between full new models. It all comes down to price points; the Camary is an engineering marvel because Toyota builds a tremendously reliable, efficient, safe and decent performance vehicle for a price that almost anyone can perform. That isn't to say that the McLaren isn't beautifully engineered, but engineering excellence is a lot more then just using the highest end materials and most expensive manufacturing methods. ------------------------ Are you now, or have you ever been, a liberal? |
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Member |
+1, well put!
Please explain how you understand a hollow guide rod to negatively effect the performance of a gun? |
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Member |
Mine came in today at my dealer. I didnt pick it up because I was working and they had not put it on the books yet. I did stop in briefly and fondle it. Very very nice. I like the feel and I like the trigger. Whatever sig did with the trigger is the way to go. It is very smooth and a suprise when the hammer drops every time. Full reset is long but not bad. The trigger feels a lot better than some revolvers that I have felt. Yes I might get a DA/SA when it comes out in full size 45 if it is just as smooth. However, for a carry gun you can not beat this setup. Will pick it up and shoot tomorrow.
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Trigger reset video
http://www.youtube.com/v/rKl0GhiyQ3Y Got it updated with a WMV version so you can see it without codec squares. It is 0052 here so give it about 5min to update. |
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Member |
If the rod were made of thin, flexible, soft, inferior (whatever) material I could see a potential issue. However, I would like to see you remove the rod from your weapon and destroy it using only your hands; I seriously doubt SIG uses 'junk material'. IF the rod bothers you as much as you state - why is it that you kept the weapon? Do you feel comfortable in possibly needing to use a weapon you do not trust to protect your life? 'Gun Control Does Not Mean Gun Registration' |
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Member |
that trigger doesn't look that bad to me,with practice looks like you can get pretty quick,nice gun good luck.
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Member |
The 250's here! Just in time for Christmas!
 Looking forward to handling one. Will have to wait until Uncle Sam gives my back the interest free loan they withheld from me before I can own it though. But I can wait! ==================== "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." THOMAS JEFFERSON |
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Member |
Hmmmm I think I remember something about hollow objects are harder to bend or break than solid ones. Yes I remember that episode of Mr. Wizard!
That little lip will give you a problem long before you have to worry about how strong the rod part is. |
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