Took delivery of a new Sig 320 X5 Legion last week and spent a good time at the range on Friday. Really nice pistol, really nice.
One question. I know it has a steel guide rod. Any advantage to Gray's stainless steel guide rod other than cosmetic and maybe a fractional weight advantage?

I have a GG fat guide rod in my P320 X5 and I have a P320 Legion there is a slight difference in the look. But they weigh the same (1.5 oz) and both use the same springs. The Gray Guns guide rod seems to have a better finish, but that is just me being critical.

I will get some pictures of them side by side.

Edit to add pictures, the top guide rod is the Legion and the bottom is the Gray Guns.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Factor8,

Thanks that would be appreciated!

I run the Grayguns fat guide rod in each of my P320 full size (non-legion).

The principle reason for the fat guide rod is to use non-captured springs to tune your pistol, an option that already comes with the Legion. What the fat guide rod specifically does is provide the maximum diameter rod that will still function perfectly, in order to minimize or prevent coil jumping on the recoil spring. The idea is that the rod fills up the spring as much as possible, minimizing the opportunity for coils t pass each other out of order, and disable the pistol.

In my opinion, there's a noticeable difference in the feel of the pistol with the fat guide rod and reduced power spring.

Bruce Gray has mentioned here before that he feels the P320 is oversprung, and his fat guide rod comes with a 15 lb spring. A lot of competitors who are already running minimum power-factor pistols, will opt for a lower power recoil spring, in the order of 12 lbs (some down to 10). Presently I'm running 12 and 15 lb. springs.

For the Legion, you already have the spring options and solid guiderod. My impression was that the Legion was originally offered with a Grayguns trigger and guiderod; I may be mistaken on that, and I'm not sure what the current offering is. The trigger isn't Grayguns; I don't know if the guiderod is theirs or a licensed version of the Grayguns fat rod.

In my opinion, you won't go wrong putting a grayguns fat guide rod in the P320; your question might be best put to Bruce Gray.

quote:

Originally posted by david sarnoff:
Took delivery of a new Sig 320 X5 Legion last week and spent a good time at the range on Friday. Really nice pistol, really nice.
One question. I know it has a steel guide rod. Any advantage to Gray's stainless steel guide rod other than cosmetic and maybe a fractional weight advantage?

Stick with your Legion guide rod.
You could get a recoil spring tuner's kit, though.
Taylor Tactical has a 11,12,13,14,15 lb kit for $25

Thanks everyone for your input.

I like mine. But what I have found, like most modifications, is that unless you are somewhere north of a B class shooter, you likely won’t notice or can you exploit spending the money on the mod.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I like mine. But what I have found, like most modifications, is that unless you are somewhere north of a B class shooter, you likely won’t notice or can you exploit spending the money on the mod.

That's the thing, though.
The Legion comes already "modded".

Now if you have a flavor of P320 Full Size that shipped with the "Captured 16lb RSA", you would be doing yourself a favor by switching to an un-captured RSA.
It converts the pistol to 1911 Government recoil springs.

Why do this ?
There are millions of 1911 Government springs on the planet.
They are inexpensive when it's time to refresh.
Most important though, is that now you can tune your pistol's slide velocity.
You can't do this when you're stuck with the issued 16lb captured RSA.

Why is this important ?
Now you can "dial in" the ejection pattern you want.
Now you can keep brass from hitting your optic.
Now you can return to target faster on 2nd shot because your slide velocity has been tuned.

Or just be happy with the 16lb captured RSA and adjust.

I believe the full size factory captured recoil spring is 18 lbs.

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
Why do this ?
There are millions of 1911 Government springs on the planet.
They are inexpensive when it's time to refresh.
Most important though, is that now you can tune your pistol's slide velocity.
You can't do this when you're stuck with the issued 16lb captured RSA.

Why is this important ?
Now you can "dial in" the ejection pattern you want.
Now you can keep brass from hitting your optic.
Now you can return to target faster on 2nd shot because your slide velocity has been tuned.

Or just be happy with the 16lb captured RSA and adjust.

This goes exactly to Jerry's point: MOST shooters aren't going to notice a difference or give a damn. Hell, there are also those that will think they're "improving" poor skills by tinkering with springs. I like the 1911 recoil spring option, but I don't feel like I "need" it.

Beat me to it...

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Beat me to it...

LOL. I’ll give you the floor.

The extractor and ejector determines the angle of the ejected brass, the spring strength the distance that the brass is ejected. Establishing an "ejection pattern" would seem pointless. Where the bullets impact is important. Where the brass lands, not so much.

The basic P320 recoil spring is a little too heavy; "oversprung," as it were. The result is a faster return to battery, and with the added weight of the longer slide, "slide dip." The tendency for the muzzle to rise under recoil is familiar; the tendency for the muzzle to dip (as opposed to rise) not so much. The result is the tendency to shoot low, producing similar results to shot anticipation. If one already has the habit of shot anticipation (seen during dry fire as dipping the muzzle instead of a motionless slide with each trigger press), the problem is worsened.

For people like me, who are simply crappy shots to begin with, it may not be as apparent; bad shooting is bad shooting, regardless.

A pistol which is not over-sprung won't have as pronounced slide dip. The GGI fat guide rod prevents spring-over, and makes available a choice of reduced power recoil springs; one is enabled to use only as high a weight as necessary for the ammunition to be fired. If one is shooting low power-factor ammunition (eg, 125, 130 power factor), recoil is lessened, and one doesn't need as great a spring weight to protect the frame. Additionally, a lower spring weight may be required for proper function.

The GGI fat guide rod also places a little more weight up front; with the factory spring weight, that might contribute to slide dip, with a reduced spring weight commensurate with the power factor of the cartridge, the additional guide rod weight simply helps reduce muzzle rise.

The ability to take advantage of each, depends on the shooter. Someone like me may not see a big improvement; a more talented shooter will have the skills to exploit the difference, and reduce time between shots, as well as make more accurate shots.

With competitions (and probably gunfights) won as a function of time measured in hundredths of seconds, it may contribute to skilled hands winning. It can't hurt less skilled hands, though they may not gain as much traction.

My perception with the GGI fat guiderod and reduced power springs in my P320's is that they feel smoother, and I seem to do better with them, especially with my own reloads. I'm an amateur middle-of-the-pack average shooter, but my perception is of a significant improvement in control and the way the pistol handles, especially when shooting faster. I can't speak for someone who knows what they're doing.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I believe the full size factory captured recoil spring is 18 lbs.

Consensus is 16lbs.
Never heard of anyone claiming it's 18lbs.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
Why do this ?
There are millions of 1911 Government springs on the planet.
They are inexpensive when it's time to refresh.
Most important though, is that now you can tune your pistol's slide velocity.
You can't do this when you're stuck with the issued 16lb captured RSA.

Why is this important ?
Now you can "dial in" the ejection pattern you want.
Now you can keep brass from hitting your optic.
Now you can return to target faster on 2nd shot because your slide velocity has been tuned.

Or just be happy with the 16lb captured RSA and adjust.

This goes exactly to Jerry's point: MOST shooters aren't going to notice a difference or give a damn. Hell, there are also those that will think they're "improving" poor skills by tinkering with springs. I like the 1911 recoil spring option, but I don't feel like I "need" it.

Yes, most shooters are doughballs only shooting occasionally.
And very happy with whatever comes from the factory.

But once you pull your head out of your ass, you might wonder...

Hmmm....Why are Legions set up to run 1911 springs ?
Hmmm...Why am I paying $28.00 for an OEM RSA when a 1911 spring is only $7.00 ?
Hmmm...Is it really that easy to convert a P320 Full Size to 1911 springs ?

So unless you are a casual, low volume P320 Full Size shooter (doughball), you have converted to 1911 recoil springs.
It's also possible that you are not reading your Intel Reports and are still running the captured RSA.



ETA:
Doughball -Term of Endearment for the uninitiated

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DirectDrive,

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I believe the full size factory captured recoil spring is 18 lbs.

Consensus is 16lbs.
Never heard of anyone claiming it's 18lbs.

"Consensus?"

Galloway Precision claims the factory spring rate is 20 lbs.

https://gallowayprecision.com/...for-sig-p320-pistols

The P320F .40 factory spring is 20 lbs.

I believe the factory 9mm P320F captured recoil spring assembly is 18 lbs.

Consensus is irrelevant. Facts matter.

I like the guide rod because it, with a lighter spring, are easier to re-assemble that the captured system, for me.

Now for my irrelevant stuff-

GG stuff is just plain cool. That's good enough for me, although there are other advantages.