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M&P 2.0 at 2000 rounds. Some thoughts. Login/Join 
Spiritually Imperfect
Picture of VictimNoMore
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This thread is like driving by a car accident: I just can't resist from looking as I drive by.
A range bag full of M&P 1.0s with Apex bits, magazines, etc. doesn't help.

Curiosity will eventually kill this cat.
 
Posts: 2712 | Location: WV | Registered: January 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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This won't help a bit then. Went to the range this morning with the 2.0 for the first time in a little while. I have been getting some dry fire in, but my range trips have been few and far between because of time.

First off, I now have a couple of ACT mags. I got one in a trade from CQB60, and I picked up another one. I've got about 500 rounds across them and they seem to work great. I shot some target transition stuff at the 10 to start off with. My goal was to keep the splits and transitions at about the same pace, all the while keeping the pace fast. As long as I got the right grip on the gun coming out of the holster, I had zero issues meeting my goal of .18-.20 splits shot to shot, and no more than .25 transitions.

Then I backed it off to 25 and shot a couple of bill drills. Both were sub 2.3 clean. I spent the rest of the session working on some strong hand/weak hand body mechanic stuff.



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"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 30771 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Shot M&P M2.0 9mm 4.25 in "CCP" class in IDPA. Points very well, and longer sight distance than that of the P320C9 that I have been shooting was a big help. First shot of string hits dead on and then I start to dip some of the time! Do not know why, but forgot to clean M2.0 after practice and toward the end of IDPA had failure to go into battery. Cleaning and lubricating - hard to believe - are still necessary for this wonder-pistol.

Rumor that a discount/rebate might appear July 1, 2017. KY Gun is selling for $410 delivered to your FFL.

Step up from P320C9. Mac


Mac in Michigan
 
Posts: 375 | Location: Below the Bridge in Michigan | Registered: July 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is the most interesting Thread I've read in some time---Thanks to All for their Reports/Comments
 
Posts: 396 | Location: NW Indiana  | Registered: January 09, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Conductor in Residence
Picture of Maestro
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jljones, would you expect the factory trigger to lighten or smooth out over time with more shooting? I put some more rounds through it today but find that I can manipulate the trigger of my VP9 much faster than the M&P. I have roughly the same amount of experience on both pistols, so I chalk it up to a lighter trigger.

I definitely prefer the ergos and recoil management of the M&P vs the VP9, but I just can't seem to run the trigger as easily as the VP9.

I'm thinking about the Apex kit, but I would really prefer to leave it factory if it will lighten up through 'experience.'
 
Posts: 3280 | Location: Tampa Bay, FL | Registered: July 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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About lighter than factory trigger for M&P 9mm M2.0: Factory triggers that I have measured are close to 6 pounds-force (lb-f). NRA's sample was 5 lb-f.

From suggestion: replacing the factory sear (one pin removal towards the rear of the pistol) with Apex two dot sear brings required trigger force down to 4.5 lb-f or slightly less. It is expected (hope) that a lighter trigger return spring and possibly a lighter sear spring will be available so that 3 lb-f can be achieved.

[follow up on story about failure to go into battery - cleaned M&P M2.0 and found that it was really not so dirty at all and still had sufficient lubrication. Think now that a somewhat dirty barrel ramp + ammo that was a touch too light caused the problem.]


Mac in Michigan
 
Posts: 375 | Location: Below the Bridge in Michigan | Registered: July 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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I shot a couple of hundred more rounds today. I took some photos messing around for a comparison.













Comparing the 2.0 to a Gen4G19. There isn't that much difference really.


_______________________________________________________________________
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"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 30771 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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quote:
Originally posted by Maestro:
jljones, would you expect the factory trigger to lighten or smooth out over time with more shooting? I put some more rounds through it today but find that I can manipulate the trigger of my VP9 much faster than the M&P. I have roughly the same amount of experience on both pistols, so I chalk it up to a lighter trigger.

I definitely prefer the ergos and recoil management of the M&P vs the VP9, but I just can't seem to run the trigger as easily as the VP9.

I'm thinking about the Apex kit, but I would really prefer to leave it factory if it will lighten up through 'experience.'


My gun stayed stock for a while. Over a few thousand rounds (and as many dry fires) the trigger did smooth out and was manageable. I didn't think the pull weight dropped much, if at all.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 30771 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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After shooting up some moderately stout test ammo to recover the boxes and to become more familiar with the M&P M2.0 9mm trigger, I decided to shoot supported at 25 yards.

I alternated four 4.9 WSF + HAP 115 with four 3.3 WSF + Berry 147. One is about as hot as have used and the other is developed for PPQ-M2.
Result was a three inch group with a noticeable bifurcation of hits. This with fiber sights and two-hand hold with elbows resting on bench.

M2.0 does seem to shoot to point of aim with a broad selection of 9mm ammo.

However, to have an even lighter trigger force would make trigger-control more easy.


Mac in Michigan
 
Posts: 375 | Location: Below the Bridge in Michigan | Registered: July 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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Jerry, looking at your comparison shots, the grip on the Smith is longer, but now hugely so. Do you think this gun could be reasonably CCWed, or is it just too big?
 
Posts: 17381 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
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quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Jerry, looking at your comparison shots, the grip on the Smith is longer, but now hugely so. Do you think this gun could be reasonably CCWed, or is it just too big?


I carry a 226 some, so this carries just a good. If a shooter is really looking to minimize grip length, the gun wouldn't be a go. But, I've carried it IWB for a little while, and it carries just as good as the G19. The grip length is the only caveat.

I personally like to carry as much gun as I can. I have a set of standards from concealment, and I won't carry a gun that won't do the standards. The smallest I ever go is a 9c. That is usually the summer time gun to just throw a T shirt over.


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"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 30771 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ethics, antics,
and ballistics
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Did a side by side shooting comparison between my M2.0 9mm and original Smith & Wesson Import PPQ classic 9mm (ironic, I know Smile ) and I have to say that it is as close to a tie as I could have imagined except for a couple of minor idiosyncrasies inherent to each pistol.

Accuracy: There is absolutely nothing "combat accurate" about my two examples of these pistols. Any review I have ever read where the reviewer says any pistol was "combat accurate" makes me shake my head a little because IMHO, it is a term that is used WAY too often as an excuse to give a pass to a gun most experienced people would consider mediocre or worse in the accuracy department, or maybe less frequently to cover up the shooter's inability to shoot the gun well. The ability to hit a man sized target is simply not "good enough" for me. Bottom line...if you miss the target, it is your fault when it comes to these two guns. They are both incredibly accurate pistols that can and do cut ragged hole groups at even longer distances when shooting for absolute accuracy and even when picking up the pace, as long as you do your part. They also seem to shoot the same variety of ammunition equally well without being noticeably picky.

Sights: They both have good three dot sights that are easy to use but the M&P requires a very precise "shoot through the front sight dot" bullseye sight alignment vs the PPQ's "cut the bullseye in half with the top of the front sight" sight picture which I actually prefer. The PPQ also has noticeably more light between the sides of the rear sight and the front sight edges, but it doesn't seem to bother me as much as on other pistols.

Reliability: I have found them both the be extremely reliable regardless of bullet weight or type, with only one failure of the PPQ to go fully into battery when it was brand new and the M&P2.0 having only one stoppage which occurred today with the nose of an older Magtech 124gr FMJ round getting stuck against the top of the chamber with the rear of the case still in the magazine. It was easy to clear and keep shooting though. The M&P issue appeared to be simply due to a magazine that has been used without cleaning since February, so not a fault of the gun. I also have a PPQ magazine which is no longer activating the slide stop after it is empty but has likewise not been cleaned since it was first purchased and cleaned. I have certain magazines I use specifically for the range that I purposely do not clean frequently other than a quick wipe down on the exterior to see just how long they will go without issues. They do eventually get disassembled, cleaned, and tested for functioning again though.

Ergos: They both feel great in the hand just for different reasons. The PPQ because of the subtle shape and contours that fit my hand so nicely and the M&P because I can get my hand just a little higher, also has a nice shape / grip angle, and with the great grip texture.

Triggers: Interestingly enough The triggers break very similarly, even with the difference in shape / contour of the hinged vs. safety lever triggers taken into consideration, but the weight of the break and other small nuances are evident in that the M&P requires just a little more attention to the trigger to keep from shooting low than the PPQ. Then again, the PPQ trigger breaks at an amazingly crisp, ever so slightly over 4 pounds vs. the about 5.5lbs. of the M&P. Granted the PPQ has quite a few more rounds through it than the M&P but my PPQ started out around 4.5lbs to begin with. Aside from the pull weight and physical characteristics of the triggers, their breaks and resets are very very close in how nice they are. In this case I will give the advantage to the PPQ simply because of the trigger pull weight difference and it is in fact a very sweet trigger, even as compared to non-polymer, non-striker fired guns I have or have shot. Credit given where credit is due.

Recoil: The M&P does edge out the PPQ in this regard, but only by an slight amount. The PPQ tends to have just a touch more muzzle flip but when going back and forth between the two you could almost overlook the difference if you weren't looking for it as it doesn't affect the gun's ability to shoot quickly and accurately. It just presents a minor difference in cadence and trigger timing between shots if shooting more rapidly. The M&P also has a little extra length / weight hanging on the front end so that helps the M&P too.

Overall: If I had to choose just one, it would be virtually impossible. I don't even want to contemplate it because it would just be too vexing. Wink They are both reliable, durable, accurate, and personally I think aesthetically pleasing. With both the M&P2.0 and PPQ at my disposal, and my wife loving her M2 PPQ as well, it seems my mid 90's Second Gen G19 has been permanently moved to collector / very occasional use status and it may even be promoted to full safe queen. May seem like a weird gun to have as a safe queen, but it has some sentimental value having been my first Glock and it is in terrific shape and a terrific shooter with only very minor wear.

I'm going to have to check to see if there are any upcoming local shoots I can take these to. Maybe I can find a G34 shooter I can hustle...errr...I mean shoot against in friendly competition. Wink


-Dtech
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Posts: 3663 | Location: South Florida | Registered: April 03, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Spiritually Imperfect
Picture of VictimNoMore
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
This won't help a bit then.


You're not helping. Yes, you are helping.
You know exactly what you're doing. Big Grin
And, it is much appreciated.
 
Posts: 2712 | Location: WV | Registered: January 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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The gun is pretty awesome no doubt.


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"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 30771 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks Detech: Useful report.
I too have found women who really like the PPQ-M2 4" and yet find the M&P M2.0 4.25" to be too heavy at about 790 grams.

Swapping the sear with Apex two-dot-sear 100-063 will bring the trigger pull of the M2.0 down to 4.5 Lb-f or so. Eventually, it is expected that Apex will have a complete kit of parts to enhance the M&P M2.0 into an even better pistol for competition.


Mac in Michigan
 
Posts: 375 | Location: Below the Bridge in Michigan | Registered: July 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I haven't updated this thread in a while.

The gun is now at above about 10k. The only detractor I have noticed is that my group size has opened up at 25 yards. I scrubbed the barrel two or three times, and shot some groups off hand at 25 yards. The gun has opened up to about 5 inches at 25 on a good clean bore.

While not enough to worry about, I will install a Apex gunsmith fit barrel before the 2018 shooting season starts.

In the mean time, I have borrowed a buddies 5 inch 2.0 to which I started to wring it out today. I am still seriously considering adding another PS to the stable and having the slide cut for an RMR.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 30771 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My M&P 9 2.0 Compact will be here next week. I'm anxious to get it out to the range!


Like guns, Love Sigs
 
Posts: 816 | Location: Battle Born | Registered: December 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for updating.

I'm curious to hear how the Apex barrel works for you, as the groups opening up w/the stock barrel is disappointing.


________________
tempus edax rerum
 
Posts: 631 | Location: Oregon | Registered: March 18, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I put the Apex Tactical Hard Sear in my 2.0 compact and in my full sized.The trigger is amazing after just this one mod. Its now on par with y PPQ I am totally shocked. Been carrying it to


Lawrence A Visocky (Larry V)
 
Posts: 465 | Registered: January 13, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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jljones, will you be getting a M&P 9 2.0 Compact? I will in 2018 for sure.


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Always carry. Never tell.
 
Posts: 5118 | Location: Montana  | Registered: May 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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