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Glock 19 w/ irons vs RMR Login/Join 
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Picture of konata88
posted
I've been acclimating to the RMR, and to the suppressor height irons as well I guess.

Couple of things:
1. the RMR glass does have some distortion as you look through it. More apparent when using the irons.
2. The sight picture seems darker with the RMR, again more apparent when using the irons.
3. The RMR glass gets pretty dirty; gonna need to remember to regularly clean it.

I'm not an expert and likely will not run into close quarter (< 10 yards) scenarios in which those who carry vocationally may encounter where an RMR would be invaluable. I can see the utility but not sure it makes any difference for my skill level and for scenarios I might encounter. Speed, precision seem very similar for < 10 yards between irons and RMR. 2" groups are right on top of each other. I'll test more for speed differences as I get further acclimated with the RMR.

However, I've convinced myself that they do make a difference at longer distances, both in terms of speed and groups. Group with the RMR, for me, at 25 yards is more consistent and tighter than with irons.

Was shooting somewhat casually and comfortably but slow enough to try and make decent groups. Left side is irons, right side is with RMR. Again, I'm not a great shooter but I can keep to 2-3" groups at 10 yards; I'm not all over the paper. My groups do widen up at 25 yards though. Regardless, the pattern to me is statistically relevant and I believe the RMR has value for longer distances. Need to figure out how, but would like to get an RMR cut slide for my 20 for use in the woods. I'm not sure yet if I'll carry around town with an RMR.





"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
 
Posts: 9343 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Biggest benefit is that a red dot that can show you more clearly when you are not pulling the trigger smoothly. I find a red dot improves accuracy at almost all distances. But then my eyes went south a few years ago and I have to wear progressives which suck.

Low left is a typical sign of jerking the trigger so watch how the dot moves as you pull the trigger and use that to concentrate on keeping the dot on target throughout your trigger press.
 
Posts: 2769 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Casuistic Thinker and Daoist
Picture of 9mmepiphany
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quote:
Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
Low left is a typical sign of jerking the trigger so watch how the dot moves as you pull the trigger and use that to concentrate on keeping the dot on target throughout your trigger press.

A side benefit of using a red dot is that it is easier to learn to call your shots with a red dot than iron sights




No, Daoism isn't a religion



 
Posts: 13638 | Location: northern california | Registered: February 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am definitely more accurate with the optics. I’m still slower though. All my iron guns have been updated to either fiber optic fronts or night sight fronts with the big green/yellow outlines ala Trijicon HD or TFX Pro’s. With those styles I am about my fastest. If I need an accurate shot especially as range opens up my optics guns are better. RMR glass isn’t great. Both my Trijicon SRO and Deltapoint Pro glass are both bigger and clearer with little to no noticeable distortion.
 
Posts: 3819 | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I believe it is a lens coating that gives the RMR a slightly darker tint.
 
Posts: 2499 | Location: Pnw | Registered: March 21, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of bcjwriter
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I found moving to the RMR a very humbling experience. I thought when shooting with irons my gun was rock steady...not so much once I put on the RMR. As I worked through it, the close in was still point shooting, but as I went out further...the RMR was priceless.




 
Posts: 1550 | Location: Southern CA | Registered: July 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I just completed a two day red dot sight class. For better than half a day, we worked on shooting with catastrophic failures. Now, more than ever, I am convinced that those who find flaws in the RDS are making excuses. In two days, I shot from contact to 25 yards. In rain, mud, total occlusion, emitter failure, you name it.

The red dot sight is always an enabler.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 35110 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of rockchalk06
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
I just completed a two day red dot sight class. For better than half a day, we worked on shooting with catastrophic failures. Now, more than ever, I am convinced that those who find flaws in the RDS are making excuses. In two days, I shot from contact to 25 yards. In rain, mud, total occlusion, emitter failure, you name it.

The red dot sight is always an enabler.


I painted a white dot on the top of my RMR, stuffed it full of cotton balls and ran a small class with it out to 10 yards. Took me about 20 rounds to find my POA, but I completed it and was damn surprised how well I did.

I agree with your statement 100%!
 
Posts: 1356 | Location: OK | Registered: April 13, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah, they had us paint silver lines on the top of the optic to accomplish the same thing!

Definitely great training.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 35110 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm 57 years old and after 40+ years of iron sights switching over to an RDS to some getting used to. Now that I have I'm systematically switching (almost) all my handguns to a red dot.

I have an RMR but I've started using Holosun's 508T (Titanium body) and I like it better due to the 32 MOA Circle/ 2 MOA Dot. While I find the 2 MOA Dot good for the range, I would rather have the 32 MOA Circle/Dot for self defense. I have the original 508T as well the new 508T X2 and while the original 508T has a green tent similar to my RMR, the new 508T X2 is almost clear.
 
Posts: 47 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: January 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
...Now, more than ever, I am convinced that those who find flaws in the RDS are making excuses...


Agreed.

We are watching history repeat itself. It's the same thing they said about red dots on rifles. It doesn't help that so many people think they're going to re-learn years (even decades) of pistol work by going to the range a couple times and blowing a couple boxes of ammo in a B27 or something.

Red dot optics on handguns are the now.
 
Posts: 3978 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of konata88
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Delta Point Micro signs of life. Got a notification that product is available (although quickly went to backorder when I checked online).

Hopefully these are starting to ship now.... Would like to try one before deciding which path to take.




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
 
Posts: 9343 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg45FL:
I've started using Holosun's 508T (Titanium body) and I like it better due to the 32 MOA Circle/ 2 MOA Dot. While I find the 2 MOA Dot good for the range, I would rather have the 32 MOA Circle/Dot for self defense. I have the original 508T as well the new 508T X2 and while the original 508T has a green tent similar to my RMR, the new 508T X2 is almost clear.

I recently had a Holosun 507C installed on a SIG 320 and really do like the 32MOA circle. It is almost ideal for a body shot out to 25 yards (20 yard zero) and the 2MOA dot is good beyond that...2MOA dot also good for tight shots (half-head, behind a non-threat)at closer distances




No, Daoism isn't a religion



 
Posts: 13638 | Location: northern california | Registered: February 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of RichardC
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jljones and rockchalk06, could you expound on the catastrophic failure training, white dots, silver lines and cotton balls?



Not sure I understand, but it sounds like fun.


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Posts: 12258 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Yeah, they had us paint silver lines on the top of the optic to accomplish the same thing!

Definitely great training.


Who was the training company?

Thanks!
 
Posts: 34 | Location: OH,USA | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by RichardC:
jljones and rockchalk06, could you expound on the catastrophic failure training, white dots, silver lines and cotton balls?



Not sure I understand, but it sounds like fun.


I'm neither of those guys, but they're talking about training to shoot in the event of an optic failure. Optic failures can occur a couple of ways.

-Battery or electronics failure.
-Glass breakage.
-Obstructed window.

Obstructed windows are simulated by blocking all or part of the window (such as taping over it). Depending on whether the obstruction is objective side or ocular side, you either rely on binocular vision (objective) or one of a few methods (bracketing, painted index points, or using the edge of the optic body) (ocular).

Glass breakage failures may still have a usable dot and may have a sufficiently unobstructed window to use the irons. With electronics failures, going to irons is probably preferred.
 
Posts: 3978 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a Trijicon SRO. Where would the white dot or silver line go?


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Posts: 12258 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Across the top center of the housing and on the edge of the housing that faces you. That will also obviously be a pretty limited index point.
 
Posts: 3978 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I’m a fan of the RMR, similar experience to those above. Huge difference for me.
 
Posts: 1309 | Registered: April 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Ironmike57
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I installed my first red dot sight yesterday. I really wanted the SRO or 509T, but had to "settle" for the RMR type 2 LED. Even though the first 2 have the same RMR footprint, they would not fit my FNX 45 Tactical. Trijicon told me that they sit too far forward and could interfere with the ejection port. I wanted that big window as a new dot shooter. Range day today to zero.

I am considering a 10 yard zero. The gun will be used for nightstand and some steels. Is this an ok distance?
 
Posts: 1553 | Location: Delray Beach | Registered: July 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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