Hello. I just picked up a red box P229 in .40. I havent fired it yet. My question is why doesnt the barrel or slide include the serial number? The serial number is only on the frame. The frame is made in Germany. My next question is are these red box Sigs sorta like mix and match weapons or something? Im not too computer saavy so I dont know how to include pics plus im about ready to get some shut eye for today. Maybe tomorrow ill try to figure out how to include pictures. Thanks in advance!

Red box P229? Yes, sounds like a CPO gun.
CPO SIGs = anything goes. Could be all original, but many a time, they are parts guns, aka FrankenSIGs.

Regarding serial numbers, very early P229s have triple matching serial numbers. After 1994 or so, only 2 serial numbers (on frame and slide). Then, only single serial number on frame.

To add to what the Doc said, I would venture say that with the “modularity” demands that consumers now have, triple serial numbers will be a thing of the past across all manufacturers.

To give you an idea of how "anything goes" with CPO pistols - the only CPO I have is a 228.

The slide is from 1990 (stamped KA), but the frame is from 1997-1998.

There was a point in time in the early 2000s where SIG would mill the serial numbers off the slide because they mix-matching so many double and triple serial number guns.
On my 228, they completely milled down the slide and re-roll marked it.

It is my understanding that "triple serial number" pistols are/were completely manufactured in Europe, where it is law to have all this parts with serial numbers.

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:
It is my understanding that "triple serial number" pistols are/were completely manufactured in Europe, where it is law to have all this parts with serial numbers.

Not true. CIP countries require proofing of the major parts, but triple serial numbers are not required. Almost all the German Xguns have serial numbers only on frame and slide. Proof marks, however, are on frame, slide and barrel.

Tangential to this topic: Please help me understand this serial numbering? When the P320 came out, it offered interchangeable parts. But the Lower (frame?) was serialized, so that no matter how you changed it, the serial number was always the same.

But how does having a serial number make a difference if, for example, someone changes the barrel? Or the upper? The rifling is (again, as I understand it) how a firearm is identified. A sample cartridge is usually included with a new gun, both to demonstrate that is has been successfully fired, and also identified.

So, if only the lower is serialized, isn't identifying a sidearm rendered useless if the upper (barrel) portion has been changed?

A "mongrel" gun then, could potentially have multiple serial numbers, or identifying characteristics. How is this possible? Or I guess more accurately, legal?

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:
It is my understanding that "triple serial number" pistols are/were completely manufactured in Europe, where it is law to have all this parts with serial numbers.

Not true. CIP countries require proofing of the major parts, but triple serial numbers are not required. Almost all the German Xguns have serial numbers only on frame and slide. Proof marks, however, are on frame, slide and barrel.

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:
It is my understanding that "triple serial number" pistols are/were completely manufactured in Europe, where it is law to have all this parts with serial numbers.

Not true. CIP countries require proofing of the major parts, but triple serial numbers are not required. Almost all the German Xguns have serial numbers only on frame and slide. Proof marks, however, are on frame, slide and barrel.

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Q, that then begs the question as to why certain firearms from Europe had triple serial numbers, such as Sigs did?

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:
It is my understanding that "triple serial number" pistols are/were completely manufactured in Europe, where it is law to have all this parts with serial numbers.

Not true. CIP countries require proofing of the major parts, but triple serial numbers are not required. Almost all the German Xguns have serial numbers only on frame and slide. Proof marks, however, are on frame, slide and barrel.

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Q, that then begs the question as to why certain firearms from Europe had triple serial numbers, such as Sigs did?

When I first started getting seriously interested in shooting, and SIG pistols in particular, I was told that German law considered the frame, slide, and barrel as the firearm and required the serial number to be on each part, unlike in the U.S. where the frame or receiver is considered the firearm with only one serial number required on it. However, that myth has been debunked, by OTD I believe, who stated the triple serial numbers were more a matter of tradition rather than German law. That is why there are many SIGs with just two serial numbers, usually the frame and slide, as Q has mentioned on the X-guns.

Whew! So much wonderful info here, fellas! Thanks!
Well, I took it out to the range today and im quite satisfied with it. No failures and was as accurate as one would need it to be as a personal defense pistol. I still have not messed with posting pictures of it but yes, it does exist! hehehehe! Thanks again for the feedback!