I just got hired by a civilian Army/DOD dept.
I will be issued a very old Beretta 92F. A few questions...Obviously, I will be taught & learn a lot when I start, and at the academy, but would like everyone's opinion.

This will be my first real training and experience with a centerfire autoloader. Is this a good platform to learn on? Since the weapon is so old & w/ fixed sites, will the weapon limit my accuracy?

I have a choice of any holster if I purchase it, otherwise, I'll be issued an old uncle mikes.

This seems like the premier holster for the 92F.
http://www.safariland.com/product.aspx?pid=0705

Any other ideas?

thanks!

Good training will make you perform well, no matter which platform you pick. So the 92 is a fine firearm, provided you put in the time to learn it well.

The fixed sights are actually a plus. Too many people (I used to be one of them) use adjustable sights to try to make up for poor technique.

I hope you will have night sights. If not, that might be a worthwhile investment. If the gun is real old, it may also be worthwhile to have it inspected by a certified armorer/gunsmith to make sure it's in top running condition.

I can't speak for the holster selection.

Best of luck.

cc

I'd recommend the SLS system (like the 6280) but in a flavor with the guard that fits over the top, which prevents a slap from opening the mechanism, as on this holster: http://www.safariland.com/product.aspx?pid=6325

Of course, everyone will have different opinions about this, but for me, it was a good combination of reasonable security and quick draw. I think the sort of holsters you have to deactivate multiple snaps and rock back with are deathtraps, frankly. With proper training, you will get through a gun-grab attempt with a good SLS holster (or indeed, with a simple thumb-break, as has happened to me), whereas under stress, you may fumble a complex, three-step draw process.

If you do go with a level III holster, practice, practice, practice that draw.

quote:

Originally posted by ccmdfd:
Good training will make you perform well, no matter which platform you pick. So the 92 is a fine firearm, provided you put in the time to learn it well.

The fixed sights are actually a plus. Too many people (I used to be one of them) use adjustable sights to try to make up for poor technique.

I hope you will have night sights. If not, that might be a worthwhile investment. If the gun is real old, it may also be worthwhile to have it inspected by a certified armorer/gunsmith to make sure it's in top running condition.

I can't speak for the holster selection.

Best of luck.

cc

Do the older 92's have removable front sights?

quote:

Originally posted by 220x8:

quote:

Originally posted by ccmdfd:
Good training will make you perform well, no matter which platform you pick. So the 92 is a fine firearm, provided you put in the time to learn it well.

The fixed sights are actually a plus. Too many people (I used to be one of them) use adjustable sights to try to make up for poor technique.

I hope you will have night sights. If not, that might be a worthwhile investment. If the gun is real old, it may also be worthwhile to have it inspected by a certified armorer/gunsmith to make sure it's in top running condition.

I can't speak for the holster selection.

Best of luck.

cc

Do the older 92's have removable front sights?

No, but I do believe there are places which will drill out the front sight and insert a tritium sight in its place.

I'll gladly defer to those more in the know though.

cc

GREAT guns accurate reliable and very smooth shooters I miss my M9 the older ones are known to be incredibly well made. Those guns can look beat to hell and still run like a champ.
For holsters safariland is hard to beat.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Malpaso:
I just got hired by a civilian Army/DOD dept.
I will be issued a very old Beretta 92F. A few questions...Obviously, I will be taught & learn a lot when I start, and at the academy, but would like everyone's opinion.

This will be my first real training and experience with a centerfire autoloader. Is this a good platform to learn on? Since the weapon is so old & w/ fixed sites, will the weapon limit my accuracy?

I have a choice of any holster if I purchase it, otherwise, I'll be issued an old uncle mikes.[\QUOTE]

The military uses/issues "old" M9s with fixed sights--does not limit accuracy at all--it's all about the shooter.

As far as it being a "good" platform to learn on--irrelevant. It is the firearm you are being trained on for your job. Learn the manual of arms for that weapon as your life may depend on it. Personally, I prefer a SIG.

For holster: Look at a Blackhawk SERPA. I use this holster when I deploy (drop-leg or chest-mounter) or OC (OWB)

Congratulations on your new job. You don't specifically say, but I assume its some kind of uniformed security at a military installation?

The Beretta M9, while not my first choice for the task, is a fine sidearm. I've owned a couple over the years and found them all to be accurate and reliable, with good DA/SA triggers.

If you're drawing an armory gun, I wouldn't bother trying to mail the slide off to get night sights installed. Its not exactly your property, so I would resist the urge to make any permanent modifications. If you have the money to spend, Crimson Trace makes laser grips, a good low-light alternative to night sights that can install/remove in about 5 minutes.

For holsters, you're on the right track, but not quite there. Safariland is the only make of duty holster I would consider. I'm not sure why you chose the low-ride version of the 070, (i prefer the standard mid-ride) but if you're going to be in a vehicle, i'd recommend against it. At the very least, try it out before you buy one.
My honest recommendation is to try one of their more modern holsters (the 070 is the premier duty holster...of 1987). Something that uses the SLS or ALS system. Look into models 6280, 6360, 6270 or 6070.

Other recommendations I'd make is that you look into buying 2 or 3 new magazines (I've heard mixed/bad reviews of the mags that the US military issues). Mec-Gar mags from Top Gun Supply of Copes Distributing are top quality and relatively inexpensive. When a good friend of mine went to Afghanistan, he took 5 of those with him and left his issued mags untouched. He reported no stoppages, and shot quite a bit.
Also, I used to have a Ceiner .22lr conversion slide for mine, which was a lot of fun and good practice, once I figured out how to make it run reliably (Mine only liked Remington high velocity round nose ammo).

Good luck, and stay safe out there.

Thanks Slappy White; got hired as a civilian police officer (0083) Will spend a lot of time in a patrol vehicle, as there are many satellite areas of responsibility.

I mentioned that holster, as everyone at the department that I met that had purchased their own duty gear, had that hoslter. I'll look into the ones you mentioned.

Did you see the comment above that a level III retention is a death trap? Your opinion?

I have relatively long arms, so I thought a low ride holster would be easier to draw..just reach down, instead of having to bring my hand up, then up again to draw.

Thanks!

We use Safariland exclusively in out department for over 20 years. Go with the high ride version. You will not regret it when riding in a vehicle.

The company stands behind their product if a problem does arise.

Let me say the last "devil's advocate" word. Be aware on the fact that you don't find in the old 92F the enlarged fire pin head acting as a retention device, to prevent the slide from flying off, in case of catastrofic failure. The model 92FS is named like this, just because of this improvement.

Buy some genuine Beretta magazines... The issue ones may not work well. They have a new one designed for desert conditions if needed.

Good Luck,
Beck

quote:

Originally posted by Malpaso:
Thanks Slappy White; got hired as a civilian police officer (0083) Will spend a lot of time in a patrol vehicle, as there are many satellite areas of responsibility.

I mentioned that holster, as everyone at the department that I met that had purchased their own duty gear, had that hoslter. I'll look into the ones you mentioned.

Good for you, man. I've heard those are pretty good jobs (decent pay, good benefits). I hope you enjoy it.

The 070 is a great holster and a wonderful balance of speed/security, and I don't mean to trash-talk it. I just think that there are better products in the Safariland line. The 6280 is an entry-level rig that is an excellent value. Although it is called a level II, I wouldn't really consider carrying one without adding the Sentry lever and/or Hood-Guard for a little extra security.
I think alot of the Raptor series (6070/6270), see below. I really like the fact that it can be reholstered with one hand, and it automatically secures itself. I like the new 6360 for the same reason, and will be transitioning to that holster in the next few months.

quote:

Originally posted by Malpaso:
Did you see the comment above that a level III retention is a death trap? Your opinion?

Bull. Shit.
I've carried a Safariland Raptor III (Model 6070) for 5 years of evening shift patrol. I've been in a few ground fights, and I've drawn my pistol in the line of duty more times than I can remember. I've never had anyone come close to defeating my holster, but I've also never been unable to access my sidearm due it being "too complicated".
Like 3P051x2 alludes to, its a training issue. I trained with the raptor holster alot before I hit the street with it. Like 3000-5000 training draws before I carried it on patrol. When it comes time for qualifications, I am consistently one of the first guys on the line to fire after the buzzer on each stage.
Its not because the holster is too slow to deploy or overly complicated to draw. Its because I practice (alot, of course, at first, but maybe 5-10 minutes per week now).

quote:

Originally posted by Malpaso:
I have relatively long arms, so I thought a low ride holster would be easier to draw..just reach down, instead of having to bring my hand up, then up again to draw.

Good thinking, but, in practice, it doesn't work that way.
First of all, it doesn't ride that much lower. Like an inch or two, that's all.
Second, duty holsters are rigid, and the low-ride will likely dig into your hip when the muzzle end presses down into the car seat. All the ALS/SLS holsters can be adapted into low-ride or high-ride versions relatively easily with a change of the belt-loop plate, but standard mid-ride works best for probably 95+% of folks. Come to think of it, with the exception of one guy, every person I've known that used a low-ride or high-ride was a female with (ahem)..large hips.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: slappy white,

Every holster is a compromise between speed and security - you have to decide which is more important to you and plan accordingly. My personal issue with "security" holsters is that they could, repeat could breed complacency in weapons retention training. The ultimate retention device is you - no holster is immune to takeaways. My second, and probably more serious issue, is that users do not put in nearly the training needed to make the draw second nature. I see far too many people with security holsters struggling when drawing under pressure. I also see duty rigs assembled in such a way that something, the usual offender being an expandable baton, is close enough to the holster to make doing the correct draw difficult.

I have not had to carry in a duty holster for almost 30 years but, we always used Don Hume's and they are still around today. I still use their H715 IWB holsters for several of my CCWs.

quote:

Originally posted by Malpaso:
...
Is this a good platform to learn on?
...

Since it's going to be what you will carry, it's the only pistol you need for learning.

You can safely ignore all that talk about learning starting with a 22LR or a revolver and "moving up" to a centerfire self loader.
There's nothing in basics of combat shooting you can learn with those that cannot be learned with a M92F. Besides, if you learn with those, you'll waste time transitioning to M92F and trying to ditch habits not related to properly manipulating an M92F.

quote:

...
Since the weapon is so old & w/ fixed sites, will the weapon limit my accuracy?
...

If I were you I will try to get night sights, if it is an option. However, since it is highly unlikely you will turn secrews to adjust an adjustable sight during pistol fight, there's really nothing you'll lose because the sights are a fixed.

quote:

...
I have a choice of any holster if I purchase it, otherwise, I'll be issued an old uncle mikes.
...

This seems like the premier holster for the 92F.
http://www.safariland.com/product.aspx?pid=0705

Any other ideas?

thanks!

I prefer SLS lock over SSIII with Safariland. The motion to release the trigger guard strap just seems awkward. The middle finger is used, the middle finger not really known for being adapted to perform complex motions.

I don't know which Uncle Mikes Holster you are referrig to. But, I would avoid a lot of their thumb-break models. I have no idea what idiot designed their plastic thumb-break. The release tab is angled towards the strap that goes over the back of the slide of the pistol. I have to consciously find the space between the strap and the tab, and sqeeze the tip of my thumb in the narrow space between it. I would not recommend it to anyone except who I'd duel with.

6360

This is what I carry. I love it. I'm just as fast as the guys carrying the level 2 serpas, but with much more security. My suggestion is to go to a police supply store and try out as many different ones as you can. Find friends and try theirs out. No matter what you get or are issued, practice until you can draw and reholster with your eyes closed. Find out what everybody else is carrying, and ask them why. If it's an issued holster, always remember that the lowest bidder got the contract. Do your research, put in the time, and get a holster you like and that fits.