Very good post Villageidiot.... in the real world in a bad situation all is up for grabs.... i've always found it strange that folks will be comparing the damage ONE 357 magnum round will do as compared to ONE 357 Sig round... but I guess that is the scientific way to do it. I think part of this is based on what we see often on TV or in the movies.... person is shot one time and falls down dead right away.....
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Wheel guns feel like flint locks to me. I would take the autoloader any day.
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I don't own a .357 Sig, although I have shot a fair bit of it, and I like it.
You specifically said larger 4 legged threats. For that target, I'd take the .357 magnum hands down. The ability to go with a heavy, hard, fast bullet gives you the penetration that is required for mean beasts. Yes, the capacity is lower, but you aren't facing 4 youts at a gas station, you are facing one critter on a trail or hunting. Power and penetration, in that situation, win over capacity. On the street, I'll take capacity every time, but humans aren't that hard to kill.
I have two .357 magnum revolvers, and two .44 magnum revolvers. When I am in 4 legged country, I find myself carrying the .44 over the .357, and here is why. My 4" 629 fits in the same holster, and carries about the same as my 4" GP 100. Both are heavier than my factory nickel Mod. 19 with case hardened hammer and trigger, and walnut target stocks, but I'm not about to carry that piece in the back country...
If you already own both, I'd carry the magnum with heavy hardcast loads in the back country. If you don't already own both, look into a .44 mag, either a Smith 629 or a 4" Ruger Redhawk. Put 240 grain loads at about 1200fps in it, and you have a terrific trail and hunting back up gun for the 4 legged pest.
Besides, I find the .44s more fun to shoot at the range than the .357s, and with careful shopping, ammo costs are similar.
"I will fight until Hell freezes over and then fight on the ice."
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I carried a P226 in 357SIG for a duty gun from around 2003 forward until I retired. We used Speer gold dots 125grain round. The department awarded me my duty gun when I retired. When I went hunting or out in the world and was worried about 4legged threats I carry a 357Magnum.
Don’t get me wrong. The sig works. I used it in three shootings and put 50+ animals down with the sig round. It works. But I know the heavier solid cast 158 grain Keith bullet works better.(based on life experience with hunting and decades of one shot stops fbi stats)
My sig now sits on the shelf in my safe,I haven’t shot it since my last qual in 2017. I edc a G19, because I don’t expect to run across a mountain lion or the like here in central Texas. But if I ever go hunting again or go hiking I carry the smith. One round of shotshell for snakes and five cast bullets. I keep a few shot shells in a pocket.
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Get the barrel. For less than $200 you can turn you P229/40 into a P229/357. Then you can shoot them and see for yourself which round you prefer.
I found the P229/357 much more pleasant to shoot than a J-Frame in 357 Mag. However, the J-frame is more enjoyable to carry.
As others have said, the advantage to the 357 Sig Barrel in your P229 is 12 rnds (or 10) compare to 5 or 6 in a wheel gun. If you are in a position where more is better, that is an advantage.
Good luck and let us know what you decided.
I’m certainly not a ballistic’s expert but if we assume that we are dealing with a mountain lion or large black bear and are suddenly surprised (particularly by a cat) then I would think with all the instant adrenaline pumping through your veins that your first shot may not be perfectly placed regardless of what caliber you’re shooting. In this scenario I would go with quantity vs. slight differences in quality and keep firing until the threat was down.
Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
I think it really boils down to 'quality vs quantity'.
No matter how you cut it, there are more loads available for .357Mag than for .357sig.
Using 'like to like' comparisons with Buffalo Bore, comparing 125gr lead free Sig rounds to Mag rounds showed a power advantage of over 150 ft/lbs of energy with the same barrel length.
So- more rounds with less kick per round or fewer rounds with more oomph per round?
I remember reading one person say they preferred DA revolvers for woods carry because, if they had the animal on their chest, they could put the barrel on the chest and shoot. With a semi-auto they had concerns that the slide might push back enough to disengage.
Never thought of it that way.
I guess it depends on your threat- Black Bear/Cougar and larger I'd want a .45Super, 10mm heavy duty or .357mag.
2 legged and coyotes, I'd feel fine with .357sig.
Sig P226, P220 Carry Stainless Elite, and a bunch of non-sigs.
I'm an old guy, so I remember the introduction of the .357Sig. It was introduced as an anti-personnel round. At the time there were a lot of statistical studies of cartridge effectiveness in gunfights. The .357 Magnum, 125 gr. hollow point, was ranked as the best or at least one of the best combat rounds. The idea was to duplicate that effectiveness in an auto-pistol round. That's why the original and most current loadings feature the 125 gr. bullet.
Obviously the 357Magnum is much more versatile than the 357Sig. But with the 357Sig you get good defensive performance in an auto-loader with potentially much higher round count and less recoil.
My only preference for any automatic pistol over
a 357 revolver is round count and quick reloadability. The 10mm auto seems to offer the best of both. However, I don't live in or frequent
big bear country. My biggest concern is multiple
two legged threats, round count seem preferable
to a 357 revolver it that regard
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"the advantage of the 357 SIG is that it’s an autoloading pistol cartridge"
there's a lot of reasons people choose one vs another caliber, and good arguments for each;
Most of my range time consists of finding what particular components work best for hobby-level.
Over the years ample load data support my interest in the 9mm, 38/357, 10mm, among others.
Don't have any unfilled ballistic needs. 357Sig is not coming home here anytime soon regardless of how many will fit.
There is not enough advantage to add another caliber support gear.
"I've been on this rock too long to bother with these liars any more."
I agree, although with a slightly different handgun and rifle mix. .22lr, 38/357 and 357Sig. For me, there's no need for anything else. Sold the 380 and the 45ACP a couple years ago and have never bothered with the wondernine.This message has been edited. Last edited by: TN Mark,
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I'm with the consensus: the .357 Sig has the advantage of capacity and fast reloads which is most helpful against multiple 2 legged critters, especially in a LE capacity. Autos are also a lot easier to conceal.
For 4 legged critters I'd stick with the wheel gun. You can drive heavy, hard cast bullets of any shape you want, fast!
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Depends where you go, but even hiking in most places I go, I'm more likely to face a threat from a person than an animal. Regardless, carrying two firearms and choosing between them under stress is neither practical nor possible for me, unless the choice is a rifle vs. a handgun. Where a handgun is carried, it's more likely to be the auto, and if something with four legs becomes a threat, then that auto will have to do, because there won't be a second handgun to grab.
Especially out and about, I can keep those magazines cleaner and more easily accessible and usable than a stack of speed loaders.
Given a choice between penetration or expansion with a cat or bear, I'll take penetration. As far as it can go. Hard cast lead in a .357 magnum is a no-brainer, but a hot 9X19 in hard cast lead is going to go fairly deep, too. An article was discussed here last year, I think involving an alaska guide that put down a bear with a Glock 19 running hard cast lead. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it does offer some advantages; capacity, weight, reduced recoil, etc. That said, a G32 is the same size, has a bit more punch, same weight...
Certainly I'd rather have a .41 or .44...but I'm more likely to have that G32, most of the time. The gun you have is better than the one you don't.
I agree that for dangerous animals, I'd want a revolver. But if I'm carrying a revolver for defense against large predators I'd probably want a more powerful round that .357 Magnum.
Other than a bear, which most of use will never need to shoot, how many 4 legged animals are there out there than need to be shoot with a 357 more than once or maybe twice at most? I've shot boar and hogs with 357 Mags from a 6" barrel and if you do your part, it will put them down.
I guess if you run into a sasquatch in the woods you might need two mags of 357 Sig.
One thing to consider about both the 357 rounds is that they are both damn loud with a lot of flash.
I was thinking bear. With feral hogs, I think how effective .357 would be would vary wildly with the size of the hog.
For cougar, .357 would likely be enough. But do you want to bet on "would likely"
Not really. All you need for sasquatch is one stick of Jacks Links beef jerky.
After that, you're on a first-name basis.
Protecting yourself from a four legged threat isn't the same at hunting that same four legged animal. In hunting, you choose your shot, and one may be enough. When it's charging at you, you take any shot you have, and you shoot till its down or until it high tails it away, then you retreat.
Black Bears aren't that tough. They're tougher than people, but most don't go over a few hundred pounds. You're unlikely to get charged by a black bear. Most black bear attacks on people out in the wilds are actually predatory - they're looking to eat you. Or they've been wounded and they're fighting back (hunter killed in Tennessee along these lines). The kind that are looking to eat you will likely be a young male, and he'll likely stalk you and approach you slowly. 100-200 lbs. A .357 Sig auto or a .357 Magnum is just fine.
A Mountain Lion is a whole other story. They light and they're freakly limber. I would not want to come into contact with those teeth or claws. But from what I understand, they're not that tough, either. A .357 Sig with a bunch of ammo would give me greater comfort than a revolver in that situation.
I say, flip a coin. Either would be fine for defense against a bear, lion or person. If you want a revolver, get a .357. if you want an autoloader, get a .357.
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