Can someone educate me on the Sig DAK trigger? Is it similar to the H&K LEM1 or LEM2 trigger? Thanks.

DAK isn’t really similar to LEM. Think of it as a lighter DA pull with an intermediate reset. When I owned and shot DAK pistols I just let the trigger reset all the way.

LEM has a varying (depending on version) light take up to a wall, then a break, with a fairly short reset created by the slide cycle acting on the hammer.

Obviously there is more to it, but that’s the essence.

It's closer to a nice DA pull then the LEM. The LEM has very little resistance till the light break. The DAK has more consistent resistance throughout the pull. I bought LEM guns because I liked DAK. I shoot them both well when I practice with them exclusively. Unlike most folks, I found when shooting classic Sig DA/SA I was good on the first DA shot but inconsistent with the second SA shot. DAK resolved that issue. Accurate, but not as fast as I am with other systems.

Thanks guys. I really like the LEM1 trigger of H&K and just wanted some opinions before I bought a Sig Sauer with a DAK trigger.

If you're in the Atlanta area, you can try mine. Sig 229 DAK with Sig AEP!

quote:

Originally posted by dc54:
If you're in the Atlanta area, you can try mine. Sig 229 DAK with Sig AEP!

Thanks for the offer, but I'm in the New Orleans area. That's why I love sigforum.com. Always great people here. Thanks.

I hated DAK but it was because of the weird reset trigger. There is a midpoint reset with DAK that is a higher weight than the very smooth regular pull. If they had either made the midpoint weight the same or deleted it all together it would be a nice trigger, like a tuned double action revolver.

It's something you should definitely try before you buy I think, even more than the LEM (which I also have and is very nice on my USP 45)

Use of the short reset of the DAK trigger is optional:
“optional \ ‘äp-shnəl \ adj (1765) : involving an option : not compulsory”

“Not compulsory” means that it’s not required, we don’t have to use it if we don’t want to, it can be ignored without penalty or prejudice. And if we ignore the short DAK trigger reset, we won’t even be aware that it exists, it won’t affect our shooting whatsoever (except that each reset will be longer than necessary), and much less will it haunt us in our nightmares.

My only issue with the intermediate reset on the DAK was when I would accidentally engage it by short stroking the trigger.
Granted, it's less obnoxious than a dead trigger, in the same scenario, but it did jar me, sort of like missing the last step on a flight of stairs. Not fatal, but it makes you look like a jerk

I prefer LEM or striker.

Bruce

All my years of shooting Sigs, and I've never shot a DAK. What's the purpose of the heavier intermediate reset? Just to have something there to prevent a dead trigger in the even of a short stroke? Or is there more to it than that?

Because it evidently befuddles so many people, here it is again: Use of the short reset of the DAK trigger is optional:
“optional \ ‘äp-shnəl \ adj (1765) : involving an option : not compulsory”

“If we ignore the short DAK trigger reset, we won’t even be aware that it exists, [and] it won’t affect our shooting whatsoever.”

When the DAK trigger was first announced, the purpose of the reduced or short reset was obvious to me: It was to “reduce” or “shorten” the distance the trigger had to move forward to “reset” the trigger so the trigger could be pulled to the rear again for another shot.

For years before the introduction of the DAK, SIG offered pistols with double action only triggers that some shooters and law enforcement agencies preferred, but the thing that people whined about the most was that they had long trigger resets like double action revolvers. That required allowing the trigger to go fully forward to its normal rest position. (Strangely, revolver shooters never complained about that; it was only after latter day shooters encountered it in DAO SIGs that some of them found themselves incapable of operating a trigger like that. I really wonder sometimes how we ever managed to shoot fast and accurately in the old days.)

The DAK design, however, made it possible to reset the trigger by allowing it to go forward about half the distance to the normal rest position. Shorter reset = less trigger movement = somewhat better control over the gun (for some) = slightly faster split times in rapid fire strings (for some). The only thing that was a little odd about the short reset was that using it increased the trigger pull weight somewhat. Some of us actually prefer the heavier pull for precision shooting, and many DAK users reported that when using the short reset in rapid fire strings, they don’t notice the heavier pull at all (I don’t, for one).

And because using the shorter reset was optional and transparent to the shooter if he didn’t want to use it, it was a total win-win design. But ….

Much later the designer of the DAK trigger was reportedly asked about the optional short reset and supposedly he said it was to avoid a misfire in the event the trigger wasn’t allowed to go fully forward to the long reset point. Well, yes, it will do that, but that struck me as very odd because even in my revolver days and teaching others that gun, I never perceived short stroking as a major problem. In fact, although it probably happened to me a time or two out of the thousands of rounds I fired with revolvers, I don’t recall any incidents. So, why design in a feature to help prevent a very rare problem?

Perhaps it was a major issue in Germany where revolvers were traditionally less popular and Germans probably don’t get to practice shooting as much as we do here to learn how to operate guns as well. For the rest of us, though, the shortening the trigger reset explanation made perfect logical sense; the supposed short-stroking fix didn’t.

In any event, based on what I’ve read a few people say, some shooters find it exceptionally upsetting that short-stroking a DAK pistol doesn’t result in a dead trigger and a failure to fire, but they actually fire the gun as they were intending. So, if this is true, then intending for the optional short reset to be a short-stroke fix was a doubly bad idea because now shooters had two things to complain about: One that they knew there was a optional short reset position that they could use if they wanted, and the second that if they short-stroked the trigger the gun would actually fire as then intended all along and despite their operating mistake.

None of that makes much sense to me, but then the world of guns and shooters is full of things that don’t make much sense to me. What is fortunate for me is that SIG developed the DAK trigger, made it available in my favorite guns, and I have a sufficient supply of such guns for my needs even though the feature was not a popular success and will evidently soon die of neglect by the company.

Sigfreund, thanks for the excellent and thorough explanation. It honestly sounds like a trigger system I could be pretty happy with. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, with the DAK trigger can you feel the reset at both the intermediate point and the full "double action" point, or is it imperceptible?

To me, the LEM and the DAK are a toss-up. I think Sig makes a nicer trigger, but I quite like the LEM system, and used it quite a bit on a P2000SK that I ankle carried or about five years.

I very much like the DAK on my P229. Sig's trigger design in general is great; the DAK is no exception. I have both the traditional Sig DA/SA triggers and DAK. For those who prefer more of a double action light pistol trigger, the DAK is good, as it is for those who might not want a long double action pull to a very short single (ala traditional DA/SA) (those who dislike the "crunch tick" effect). Also good for those who are mandated by a department to use DAK, of course.

I have never short stroked the DAK, so can't speak to that end, but like any trigger system, it's a matter of familiarity and comfort; the more one shoots it, the more comfortable one gets. With that in mind, I'm more comfortable with LEM, but only because I've shot it more.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Just to satisfy my own curiosity, with the DAK trigger can you feel the reset at both the intermediate point and the full "double action" point, or is it imperceptible?

The two reset points when using the DAK trigger are equally perceptible. In slow fire or dry firing, the intermediate reset point can be felt and clearly heard in the guns I’m familiar with, so perhaps that’s distracting to some people and partially why they don’t like the system.

Another point on the intermediate reset: some people have asked if the trigger pull from the intermediate reset can be “lightened” to match the trigger pull of ~6.5lb from full reset.

Short answer, no. The hammer still has to be moved through the entire cocking sequence (technically, from partially cocked at the intercept notch position to the point it is released) but with a higher amount of leverage due to the shorter stroke. If the hammer was able to remain at a second, but further partially cocked state at the point of the intermediate reset, it would be possible. LEM does do this.

quote:

Originally posted by blackwaterp226:

quote:

Originally posted by dc54:
If you're in the Atlanta area, you can try mine. Sig 229 DAK with Sig AEP!

Thanks for the offer, but I'm in the New Orleans area. That's why I love sigforum.com. Always great people here. Thanks.

I have a P229 DAK in Mandeville if you'd like to try it out.