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The WORST Duty handguns you were issued L/E please step in... Login/Join 
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quote:
Originally posted by L90814:
quote:
Originally posted by SIG228:
S&W Smegma .40 cal.


Same. Was going to post the exact way that you did.


This is about the third or fourth post about the Smagma. It really was a ball of shit!!!
 
Posts: 3064 | Registered: January 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by josp:
Beretta 96D. Department has them coated in NP3 which was a nice idea, but mine was so tight, it would stick 1/2 open after a few rounds. Once you hit the mag to clear that jam, it would go into battery. I learned to carry a backup after being told they wouldn’t replace it.
The one gun I didn’t buy when we switched.


Do you know a John Swartz out of West Moreland? Not sure what troop he was stationed out of.


_______________________________________________
Use thumb-size bullets to create fist-size holes.
 
Posts: 13168 | Location: Charlotte, NC | Registered: May 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Beretta 96D Brigadier .40 caliber. They were reliable in terms of cycle of operation but had serious durability issues.I broke three of them in 4 years. I have large hands but the DAO Beretta was problematic for those with small hands.

The HK USP Compact LEM 40s that replaced them were tanks. Super durable, reliable,
and accurate.
 
Posts: 418 | Location: Texas | Registered: March 25, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I know of two friends that were issued SW99’s and they hated them. Somehow the Walther versions (P99’s) were great but the S&W version were shit. Coincidently my first pistol ever purchased was an SW99 Frown


_______________________________________________
Use thumb-size bullets to create fist-size holes.
 
Posts: 13168 | Location: Charlotte, NC | Registered: May 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by Old Vark WSO:

It was U.S. Marshals Service. FWIW.


Last week I ran into one of the deputies I work with occasionally at the range. He was checking the zero on his Gen5 Glock 19 with an RMR attached.

Shows how much times have changed.

Virtually every federal service will have access to a pistol mounted optic in the next couple of years. I know for fact that CBP, USMS, FAMS, and ATF are headed that way.



They (USMS) are issuing the 17M but they authorized personally owned Glock 9mms with RMRs or Leupold DPPs about 2 years ago. They were the first federal agency to do so for regular joes.

It’s definitely coming though.

CBP and USSS are issuing MOS Glock 19s and 47s. Testing and selection of optics is ongoing though.

FBI is looking at them for SWAT but it may be a while.

ICE is looking at issuing P320s with optics for SRT use and authorizing optics on approved personally owned weapons. MOS versions of the already authorized Glocks are approved but there are no approved optics yet.

While optics are improving, mounting plays a big part in optic durability.

CBP is the largest LE Agency in North America with 45,000 LEOs and they have put out feelers to industry for an RDS that mounts directly to the MOS cut without an adaptor plate. When you are looking at buying 50,000 plus of something industry will accommodate you.
 
Posts: 418 | Location: Texas | Registered: March 25, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by jbourneidentity:
One day, while working the firing line at a PD qual, an officer's P-95 had the slide stop back out abruptly and the entire top half of the gun fell into the dirt in front of the line.


Kind of amazed the officer pulled that off. The slide has to be pulled back about a quarter of the way, and aligned precisely, to get the slide stop out. Then the ejector also has to be in the down position, which requires the magazine to first be removed, to get the slide to come off.


Charlie
 
Posts: 21 | Registered: November 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Leucoandro:
quote:
Originally posted by jbourneidentity:
One day, while working the firing line at a PD qual, an officer's P-95 had the slide stop back out abruptly and the entire top half of the gun fell into the dirt in front of the line.


Kind of amazed the officer pulled that off. The slide has to be pulled back about a quarter of the way, and aligned precisely, to get the slide stop out. Then the ejector also has to be in the down position, which requires the magazine to first be removed, to get the slide to come off.


Charlie


That is what I was thinking. Could it have been a catastrophic failure (KABOOM) that blew the slide off? I have a P97 (functionally similar to the P95) and I have no idea how the slide could make its way off. I mean stranger things and all but that had to have been a 1 in a million thing.


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 5056 | Location: On the water | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 357fuzz:
This is about the third or fourth post about the Smagma. It really was a ball of shit!!!


Especially when first introduced. It's been through a number of revisions and updates, and is now merely a fairly awful gun, instead of being an absolute ball of flaming shit like it was when it first came out.
 
Posts: 25121 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by cslinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Leucoandro:
quote:
Originally posted by jbourneidentity:
One day, while working the firing line at a PD qual, an officer's P-95 had the slide stop back out abruptly and the entire top half of the gun fell into the dirt in front of the line.


Kind of amazed the officer pulled that off. The slide has to be pulled back about a quarter of the way, and aligned precisely, to get the slide stop out. Then the ejector also has to be in the down position, which requires the magazine to first be removed, to get the slide to come off.


Charlie


That is what I was thinking. Could it have been a catastrophic failure (KABOOM) that blew the slide off? I have a P97 (functionally similar to the P95) and I have no idea how the slide could make its way off. I mean stranger things and all but that had to have been a 1 in a million thing.


I agree. It would have to be a 1 in a million thing. Maybe the officer modified their P95.

I have a P94, and she is overbuilt. She is heavy and a bit on the thick side. Some think she is ugly and lacks in ergonomics, but I think she is cute.

The P94 is more difficult to take down than Sigs, Glocks, or Berettas. That is why the event amazes me. I had a friend that didn’t know about lowering the ejector on his new-to-him P95. He put the rear of the slide against a table and slapped The front of the grip to get it off. He did this hard and it did not damage anything on the handgun.

Ruger, demonstrated the strength of the P85 after it lost the Army handgun trials to Beretta, and Beretta slides started breaking.

Ruger cut away part of the slide, plugged the barrel, and fired a NATO round. Ruger then removed the plug and the round and reassembled the gun. The gun was still operational.
 
Posts: 21 | Registered: November 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Leucoandro:
quote:
Originally posted by jbourneidentity:
One day, while working the firing line at a PD qual, an officer's P-95 had the slide stop back out abruptly and the entire top half of the gun fell into the dirt in front of the line.


Kind of amazed the officer pulled that off. The slide has to be pulled back about a quarter of the way, and aligned precisely, to get the slide stop out. Then the ejector also has to be in the down position, which requires the magazine to first be removed, to get the slide to come off.


Charlie


This was around 1997. If memory serves, I believe the P-95's slide stop backed out, but I do not remember how. I'm very certain there was no kaboom. I do remember from my own experience that the slide stop was prone to backing out of a P-95 despite the alignment. I believe this was due to the softness of the polymer frame around the metal slide stop. I never saw this same problem with the all-metal P-89s or P-94s. I work with an instructor who was present that day and will find out what he recalls and will post it here.

I carried both the P-94 and the P-95 for a short time. In my view, the P-95 was not the gun the P-94 was. I liked the P-94. The P-95 didn't seem as robust (it was sloppy, stainless slide rode on polymer rails, etc.). I can remember officers choosing the P-95 over the P-94 because it was newer and lighter, but switching back to the P-94 after spending some time with the P-95.
 
Posts: 760 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: September 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Glock 22, Gen2, with the 8lb New York Trigger. Malfunction after malfunction. Mushy trigger.
 
Posts: 1678 | Location: NoVA | Registered: August 26, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm not an LEO, but was issued a Model 15 S&W for my first tour in Vietnam. That Smith was heavily rusted, to the extent that the DA trigger pull was so gritty that it affected lock up...the cylinder bolt would not always raise into position.

Assigned as a forward air controller flying the Bird Dog, with a 5th Spl Forces "B" camp, the Berets there got me a Remington-Rand 1911-A1 with a tanker holster. It was far from a bullseye gun, but functioned every time and was plenty good enough for bunker or slit trench use if I ran out of 5.56.

Later, another FAC gave me his Browning Hi-Power which I carried for the bulk of my tour, again in that tanker, cross chest holster...a nice combination in the confines of an airplane cockpit. The only down side to the .45 or 9mm guns was that I no longer had the .38 special handgun flares for signaling. These were used to pin point our location for search and rescue if shot down.

Rod


5th Spl Forces, Air Force Bird Dog FAC, lll Corps RVN 69-70.... We enjoy the Bill of Rights through and by the sacrifice of our veterans;
Politicians, Preachers, Educators, Journalists and Community Organizers are beneficiaries, not defenders of our freedoms.
 
Posts: 620 | Registered: April 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Rodfac:
The only down side to the .45 or 9mm guns was that I no longer had the .38 special handgun flares for signaling. These were used to pin point our location for search and rescue if shot down.


Interesting. I've never heard of .38 Special flares before.

Nowadays, there are "pen flares", which are small flare launchers about the size of a pen.

 
Posts: 25121 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Only ever carried 2 guns. The P226 was great. But when the Gen 3s came out I bought a Glock 17 to replace the Sig as my duty weapon. I went back to the Sig after about 6 months. Didn't like the grip, was never smooth when drawing/holstering, never got a 'natural' sight picture, couldn't shoot it as well as the Sig past 10 yards..

It wasn't a bad gun, but it was the worst for me, and remains the worst out of almost every full size weapon I've shot over the years. Just a personal preference, but I'm not alone.

Something departments ought to consider more when they issue the same make/model/caliber to officers. I was fortunate in being able to select my own duty weapon (from a list in our SOP).
 
Posts: 152 | Location: Shenandoah Valley | Registered: February 15, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Leucoandro:
quote:
Originally posted by cslinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Leucoandro:
quote:
Originally posted by jbourneidentity:
One day, while working the firing line at a PD qual, an officer's P-95 had the slide stop back out abruptly and the entire top half of the gun fell into the dirt in front of the line.


Kind of amazed the officer pulled that off. The slide has to be pulled back about a quarter of the way, and aligned precisely, to get the slide stop out. Then the ejector also has to be in the down position, which requires the magazine to first be removed, to get the slide to come off.


Charlie


That is what I was thinking. Could it have been a catastrophic failure (KABOOM) that blew the slide off? I have a P97 (functionally similar to the P95) and I have no idea how the slide could make its way off. I mean stranger things and all but that had to have been a 1 in a million thing.


I agree. It would have to be a 1 in a million thing. Maybe the officer modified their P95.

I have a P94, and she is overbuilt. She is heavy and a bit on the thick side. Some think she is ugly and lacks in ergonomics, but I think she is cute.

The P94 is more difficult to take down than Sigs, Glocks, or Berettas. That is why the event amazes me. I had a friend that didn’t know about lowering the ejector on his new-to-him P95. He put the rear of the slide against a table and slapped The front of the grip to get it off. He did this hard and it did not damage anything on the handgun.

Ruger, demonstrated the strength of the P85 after it lost the Army handgun trials to Beretta, and Beretta slides started breaking.

Ruger cut away part of the slide, plugged the barrel, and fired a NATO round. Ruger then removed the plug and the round and reassembled the gun. The gun was still operational.



Regarding the P-95 slide separation, this is what I received from my fellow instructor on the range that day:

"On the day that we were there, the officer had a malfunction. She turned the gun to the left and racked the slide while her index finger was off the trigger and on the slide stop protrusion on the right side of the gun. It [slide stop lever] fell completely out while she was racking the slide. In the older steel P-series, if you remember, the slide stop didn't come completely out, but the P-95's very often did because of the polymer hole seemed to have been loose or out of spec for the metal slide stop lever. Usually what happened was it [slide stop lever] would only get partially pushed out and have to be reset. The protrusion was in the exact spot where your index finger would ride. Like riding your index finger an AR-15 mag release. It's there in the perfect spot to push out."

I hope you find this explanation helpful. Be safe.
 
Posts: 760 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: September 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
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quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
[QUOTE]
Nowadays, there are "pen flares", which are small flare launchers about the size of a pen......



When I saw this picture in this thread my first thought was Damn.....he wins. Big Grin


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 5056 | Location: On the water | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jbourneidentity:
quote:
Originally posted by Leucoandro:
quote:
Originally posted by cslinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Leucoandro:
quote:
Originally posted by jbourneidentity:
One day, while working the firing line at a PD qual, an officer's P-95 had the slide stop back out abruptly and the entire top half of the gun fell into the dirt in front of the line.


Kind of amazed the officer pulled that off. The slide has to be pulled back about a quarter of the way, and aligned precisely, to get the slide stop out. Then the ejector also has to be in the down position, which requires the magazine to first be removed, to get the slide to come off.


Charlie


That is what I was thinking. Could it have been a catastrophic failure (KABOOM) that blew the slide off? I have a P97 (functionally similar to the P95) and I have no idea how the slide could make its way off. I mean stranger things and all but that had to have been a 1 in a million thing.


I agree. It would have to be a 1 in a million thing. Maybe the officer modified their P95.

I have a P94, and she is overbuilt. She is heavy and a bit on the thick side. Some think she is ugly and lacks in ergonomics, but I think she is cute.

The P94 is more difficult to take down than Sigs, Glocks, or Berettas. That is why the event amazes me. I had a friend that didn’t know about lowering the ejector on his new-to-him P95. He put the rear of the slide against a table and slapped The front of the grip to get it off. He did this hard and it did not damage anything on the handgun.

Ruger, demonstrated the strength of the P85 after it lost the Army handgun trials to Beretta, and Beretta slides started breaking.

Ruger cut away part of the slide, plugged the barrel, and fired a NATO round. Ruger then removed the plug and the round and reassembled the gun. The gun was still operational.



Regarding the P-95 slide separation, this is what I received from my fellow instructor on the range that day:

"On the day that we were there, the officer had a malfunction. She turned the gun to the left and racked the slide while her index finger was off the trigger and on the slide stop protrusion on the right side of the gun. It [slide stop lever] fell completely out while she was racking the slide. In the older steel P-series, if you remember, the slide stop didn't come completely out, but the P-95's very often did because of the polymer hole seemed to have been loose or out of spec for the metal slide stop lever. Usually what happened was it [slide stop lever] would only get partially pushed out and have to be reset. The protrusion was in the exact spot where your index finger would ride. Like riding your index finger an AR-15 mag release. It's there in the perfect spot to push out."

I hope you find this explanation helpful. Be safe.


jbourneidentity,

Thanks for the explanation. On my friends P95, I seem to remember the slide stop being able to come all the way out. I think the polymer models might have been different from the metal frame models in that respect.

With your explanation, I can now visualize how it happened. Now to think of it, I don’t remember my friends P95 slide stop pin having the same retention as my P94. I remember my P94 slide stop sort of snapping in place, I don’t remember my friends P95 Doing the same.

Were you an officer in Jonesboro?


Charlie
 
Posts: 21 | Registered: November 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by 357fuzz:
This is about the third or fourth post about the Smagma. It really was a ball of shit!!!


Especially when first introduced. It's been through a number of revisions and updates, and is now merely a fairly awful gun, instead of being an absolute ball of flaming shit like it was when it first came out.


I was issued a first generation Smagma. What a pile. The second generation was barely better.
 
Posts: 3064 | Registered: January 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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When I first started with my agency, we were running GEN 3 Glock 21C's. I eventually was issued I believe two different handguns over the course of 5-6 years. I had basically zero experience in striker fired handguns until that time.

By the time I came to the department, those 21C's had been around the block a few times, and the department armorer was not really keeping up with replacement parts on those guns. I learned with that gun that even a Glock can and will malfunction. I went through several yearly qualifications where the gun would choke hard at qual time. It ranged from light primer strikes (on Federal HST duty ammo), failures to feed, magazine problems, etc. I did run the gun quite a bit every month as we could shoot all the duty ammo we wanted at the department range with our issued handgun, and had little to no malfs. But come every qualification, something would happen.

We recently traded those in on new GEN 4 Glock 17's, and as you would expect, no problems.


 
Posts: 6 | Location: Southeast Georgia | Registered: May 18, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Leucoandro:
quote:
Originally posted by jbourneidentity:
quote:
Originally posted by Leucoandro:
quote:
Originally posted by cslinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Leucoandro:
quote:
Originally posted by jbourneidentity:
One day, while working the firing line at a PD qual, an officer's P-95 had the slide stop back out abruptly and the entire top half of the gun fell into the dirt in front of the line.


Kind of amazed the officer pulled that off. The slide has to be pulled back about a quarter of the way, and aligned precisely, to get the slide stop out. Then the ejector also has to be in the down position, which requires the magazine to first be removed, to get the slide to come off.


Charlie


That is what I was thinking. Could it have been a catastrophic failure (KABOOM) that blew the slide off? I have a P97 (functionally similar to the P95) and I have no idea how the slide could make its way off. I mean stranger things and all but that had to have been a 1 in a million thing.


I agree. It would have to be a 1 in a million thing. Maybe the officer modified their P95.

I have a P94, and she is overbuilt. She is heavy and a bit on the thick side. Some think she is ugly and lacks in ergonomics, but I think she is cute.

The P94 is more difficult to take down than Sigs, Glocks, or Berettas. That is why the event amazes me. I had a friend that didn’t know about lowering the ejector on his new-to-him P95. He put the rear of the slide against a table and slapped The front of the grip to get it off. He did this hard and it did not damage anything on the handgun.

Ruger, demonstrated the strength of the P85 after it lost the Army handgun trials to Beretta, and Beretta slides started breaking.

Ruger cut away part of the slide, plugged the barrel, and fired a NATO round. Ruger then removed the plug and the round and reassembled the gun. The gun was still operational.



Regarding the P-95 slide separation, this is what I received from my fellow instructor on the range that day:

"On the day that we were there, the officer had a malfunction. She turned the gun to the left and racked the slide while her index finger was off the trigger and on the slide stop protrusion on the right side of the gun. It [slide stop lever] fell completely out while she was racking the slide. In the older steel P-series, if you remember, the slide stop didn't come completely out, but the P-95's very often did because of the polymer hole seemed to have been loose or out of spec for the metal slide stop lever. Usually what happened was it [slide stop lever] would only get partially pushed out and have to be reset. The protrusion was in the exact spot where your index finger would ride. Like riding your index finger an AR-15 mag release. It's there in the perfect spot to push out."

I hope you find this explanation helpful. Be safe.


jbourneidentity,

Thanks for the explanation. On my friends P95, I seem to remember the slide stop being able to come all the way out. I think the polymer models might have been different from the metal frame models in that respect.

With your explanation, I can now visualize how it happened. Now to think of it, I don’t remember my friends P95 slide stop pin having the same retention as my P94. I remember my P94 slide stop sort of snapping in place, I don’t remember my friends P95 Doing the same.

Were you an officer in Jonesboro?


Charlie


Yes, sir. I was an officer in Jonesboro for years. Great guess. Big Grin
 
Posts: 760 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: September 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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