Back in the early 1980's, I worked for a police agency that finally decided to issue duty weapons to their officers. Prior to that, you carried whatever you wanted to buy. Even qualification wasn't mandatory! The department decided to issue everyone a S&W Model 67 (.38 Special) revolver, and until I left for a municipal PD in 1983, that's what I was stuck with. It could have been worse, but I'd been working as a reserve officer with other departments since 1976 and carrying either a Colt Series 70 1911 (.45 ACP) or Browning High Power (9mm) all that time.
"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
I am pretty sure a lot of guys running that combo had issues. IIRC correctly Glock’s answer was the 11 coil mag spring. We put those in and they worked fine in the officer’s G22’s that were giving them fits.
My first USSS issued revolver was a Colt that the USSS had received from the US Marine Corps. It shaved lead so bad that I always fired from the last firing position at the right (my fellow agents
didn't appreciate the hot lead shower). It was a
four inch barrel and was parkerized. At that time the USSS was under US Treasury (cheapskate). We weren't even issued shot guns in our field offices,
so I bought my own 12 gauge Savage-Stevens, I later
bought a Colt .357 (and in 1964 gun fight with a counterfeiter near Chardon, Ohio, this Colt did a
very good job - funny how quickly he started turning blue.
|Fighting the good fight|
The fix isn't 100%. There are still sporadic issues on Gen 3 G22s to this day, even on guns with the "correct" parts.
My only issue gun was a G22 gen3 I carried from 98-01. I never experienced the weapon light malfunctions but I also carried it in the issue 6280 before it was made for aa weapon light so my light went on after I pulled and attached for room clearing or whatever so maybe it not being married to the pistol made the difference. The oddest gun I carried was a S&W 4" 610 in a Blade Tech level 1 when they made duty holsters. I'd wear it until my back hurt then put on my G20.
Yes, sir. In my experience, the G21 with WML as a duty weapon has been everything the Gen 3 G22 with WML has not. The Arkansas State Police has carried G21s for 20 years and have won gunfight after gunfight. I've never seen one go down in our academy courses during my 13 years there.
Speaking of Glock 22's with light failures the only way we fixed that problem was with a Glock 11 coil magazine spring. the only light we used was the TLR 1...VI
Sig P229R DAK in 40S&W. Not a fan of the DAK at all, especially with a fast course of fire. I was not a fan of the HK P30 V3 9mm either, the rear mounted decocker was a PITA and the trigger was crap coming from the USP.
I can say that I was never issued an unreliable duty gun. M9, G23, USP40, G22, P229, G22, P30 and P320 were all reliable.
A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."
1. Smith and Wesson Model 65 revolver: barrel was bent (to hit dead center on the old silhouette targets at 25 yards, I had to aim at the left hip pocket to hit dead center) and it shaved lead badly, anyone to my right was snowed on.
2. S&W semi auto (4006): it weighed more that a boat anchor (officers visibly listed to the side the pistol was on) and the de-cock/Safety lever had two settings: dripping during a multi shot string and then after the armorer "fixed" it with a hammer, it took both hands to push it into de-cock/safe position.
My career progression is:
1911 (Army Combat MP) to S&W Model 15 revolver to Beretta 92 to Model 15 to Beretta 92 (USAF Security Police going from overseas base to a CONUS[Continental US] base, overseas transitioned to Beretta before CONUS bases) to S&W Model 65 to S&W 4006 to Glock 23 to Sig 229 to Glock 17.
Not a duty gun... have never served... but I did become a life member of Front Sight and they sent me my free pistol, an FMK in 9mm... damn thing would not fully seat about every third round or reset the trigger.... terrible trigger pull too... I will say it is getting somewhat better after about 100 rounds through it....
|Fighting the good fight|
So Dr. Mustachio is still hawking that deal? "Become an Ultra Elite Platinum Tactical Lifetime Member today and I'll send you a FREE CHEAP GUN!!!!1"
There was a time in the mid-to-late 2000s when you couldn't go to any gun-related site on the Interwebs (besides Sigforum) without being constantly bombarded with ads from Front Sight promising a free Springfield XD. And if you signed up for any gun-related email newsletters, your inbox would fill up with them too.
I got so tired of seeing that dude's face.
I was a SGT. a small department in Iowa. I had been able to attend the S&W armorers school and had been buying police trade ins from Gil Hebard guns for resale. Many officers had to provide all their own equipment to start and could not afford new guns.
One of our new hires showed up with ROHM revolver.
I took him home and found him a S&W model 10 to use He told me he had spent all his cash for his
equipment and could not afford a better gun.
I told him to take the gun and pay me $10 a paycheck and he did.
I agree his marketing is way over the top and not something I appreciate... his membership plan is the same as Jim and Tammy Fay Bakers with the PTL club.... join.... get something... up your membership and get something more.... mostly a stay at the proposed hotel complex or even ownership in a future time share.... I would be seriously suspicious.... except the last time I showed up for a class they had just finished building 25 more shooting ranges...and were busy building more and flatting out some more land out in the dessert for the complex.....
Also, I have taken DR. p's four day defensive handgun class four times... and it is the most disciplined training I've ever taken. I would whole heartedly recommend it to anyone who owns a gun. The interesting part is there is not even a hint of his hyper sales stuff during the four days you take the class....
Once you finish that class you are trained to put two rounds into center mass from concealed in less than 1.5 seconds....
|I Wanna Missile|
The worst issue gun I ever had was my 1954-era M1911, from the US Army. The slide was cracked, so it couldn’t be fired. The lands in the barrel had been worn smooth, so I couldn’t hit anything even if I could have fired it. I just had to carry it around in the field. I wasn’t even issued magazines. When we qualified, I shot somebody else’s each time.
Before we deployed to Iraq in 1991 for desert Shield/ Storm we were issued M9s which were great. My primary weapon was an M60 machine-gun back them, so I didn’t use the M9 nearly as much as when I went back in 2003.
Ironically, by 2003 lots of guys were having problems with the M9 by then. I think is was crappy third party magazines. I joined the battalion already in-country, brought my own Beretta magazines with me and never had a problem... and ended up using the sidearm WAY more than the rifle I was also issued. When it dropped in the pot I just always seemed to have the pistol handy. We only had two rifles per crew, and somebody else always had the rifle.
I’m going to Front Sight this July (if everything holds up) sort-of on the department’s dime. I’ve had two certificates for classes for a couple years now and have never been able to go... so the department is letting me attend on the clock, but I have to pay for travel out of pocket. I was supposed to go in March but that class got cancelled.
Interestingly, they are certified by Nevada POST now.
I’ve heard there are/were departments that issued the Titan Tiger .38 revolver.
"I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight."
GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
I started as a LEO in 1977. Had to furnish own weapons back then. Worst was a Smith 59. Trigger pin would drift during firing along with other issues. Best was Colt Python. Heavy but worked all of the time.
Tried to carry my Series 70 but the powers that were at that time decided that was too dangerous to carry.
USAF Airweight 38 Revolver.
|John has a |
The only duty weapon I never warmed up to was the S&W 4006 TSW we were issued for a couple of years. When we went back to Personally-Owned, Department Approved I passed on the chance to buy it even with the agency logo engraved.
|I kneel for my God, |
and I stand for my flag
S&W Smegma .40 cal.
Same. Was going to post the exact way that you did.
Maybe it's not an "agency," but in 1983 I started work for the Army as a civilian guard at an ammo depot in upstate NY. We were issued a 4" 38, can't remember who made it. I do remember carrying 18 rds of ball which we turned in with the gun. The MPs on depot carried the standard 45.
I was a guard for just a year, fired the 38 25 (maybe it was 50) times, it went bang every time. The Beretta M9 came later.
Edited to add: Pardon my math. I posted thinking 1983 was after the mid-nineties.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Sigmund,
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