SIGforum
NFA or Non-NFA MPX

This topic can be found at:
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/4180097854

July 10, 2019, 09:01 PM
Ahr69
NFA or Non-NFA MPX
I have both the SIG SAUER MPX-P-9-PSB GEN 1 and the Sig Sauer MCX/MPX Collapsible Stock (removable).

I have an NFA stamp SBR. ok fine.
Now I come to find out that I'm supposed to engrave my name and city, state on it??? Yes/ No

And with that is it retroactive?? My stamp was given 2018.

on top of that what if I install a shorter barrel than the 8" one, say a 2" for a suppressor? The suppressor of course is NFA. Now what...the form says it has a 8" barrel.
July 10, 2019, 09:32 PM
AZSigs
You have to have engraved your name and city, state when you build the rifle/pistol. Ruling has been there for as long as I know.
If you have built an SBR with a 8" barrel and a stock that comes to (Let's say) 29" you have put that info on your Form 1 already. If you modify it to be shorter you should complete an addendum to your original Form 1 to specify the shorter barrel and shorter overall length.
Added note: Section 3H on your approved Form 1 will show what information needs to be engraved




Getting shot is no achievement. Hitting your enemy is. FFL(01) NRA Endowment Member
July 11, 2019, 07:53 AM
Bluecobra
??? My approved Form 1 for my MPX has no section 3h. It does have section 4h, but there is no info in that field.

The way I understood the directions were, if you manufacture the firearm from parts, into a completed SBR then you have to engrave it. If you purchase a completed MPX pistol and convert it into an SBR by adding a stock, the manufacturer, serial number, caliber, etc are already on the gun. That info only needs to be relayed to the ATF on the Form 1. That is what I did.
July 11, 2019, 08:42 AM
hrcjon
a form 1 is an application to "make and register" a firearm. If you create an SBR you are the maker and you are required to mark it. ATF instruction on the form 1 are (7) Markings: The maker is required to mark the firearm with the maker’s name, city and state as shown in item 3b. All markings are to be in compliance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102
You don't have to make a new serial number if it has one.
If the gun was previously an NFA item and transfers to you on a Form 4 then you don't have to mark it.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
July 11, 2019, 09:09 AM
DaBigBR
You MUST engrave the name of the entity on the Form 1 and the city and state. There is simply zero question about it. If you are making an NFA item via a Form 1, it does not matter if you're starting with an assembled pistol and adding a stock or starting with a pile of old lawn mower blades, melting them down, casting them, and milling them.

I would get that done post haste. Veritas Machining in Michigan is very quick as is Tennessee Arms Company. I've used both.
July 11, 2019, 10:39 PM
AZSigs
quote:
Originally posted by Bluecobra:
??? My approved Form 1 for my MPX has no section 3h. It does have section 4h, but there is no info in that field.

The way I understood the directions were, if you manufacture the firearm from parts, into a completed SBR then you have to engrave it. If you purchase a completed MPX pistol and convert it into an SBR by adding a stock, the manufacturer, serial number, caliber, etc are already on the gun. That info only needs to be relayed to the ATF on the Form 1. That is what I did.

My error- it is 4H that has the information you will engrave.




Getting shot is no achievement. Hitting your enemy is. FFL(01) NRA Endowment Member
July 11, 2019, 10:45 PM
AZSigs
quote:
Originally posted by Bluecobra:
??? My approved Form 1 for my MPX has no section 3h. It does have section 4h, but there is no info in that field.

The way I understood the directions were, if you manufacture the firearm from parts, into a completed SBR then you have to engrave it. If you purchase a completed MPX pistol and convert it into an SBR by adding a stock, the manufacturer, serial number, caliber, etc are already on the gun. That info only needs to be relayed to the ATF on the Form 1. That is what I did.


You are modifying (making) the gun that was manufactured to Sig's certain specs that you are changing with a shorter barrel, shorter pistol brace, whatever. You now have modified and created a new gun. You asked for permission to make this gun and an Approved Form 1 allows you to manufacture this new SBR. However, You must engrave/have engraved your Trust/Name, City, State on the receiver.
A a reminder always have a copy of your Form 1 when you have the gun out and about at the range, etc. A good idea is take a picture of your Form 1 with your phone so you have the copy in case you need to show it.




Getting shot is no achievement. Hitting your enemy is. FFL(01) NRA Endowment Member
July 11, 2019, 11:14 PM
XLT
quote:
Originally posted by AZSigs:
quote:
Originally posted by Bluecobra:
??? My approved Form 1 for my MPX has no section 3h. It does have section 4h, but there is no info in that field.

The way I understood the directions were, if you manufacture the firearm from parts, into a completed SBR then you have to engrave it. If you purchase a completed MPX pistol and convert it into an SBR by adding a stock, the manufacturer, serial number, caliber, etc are already on the gun. That info only needs to be relayed to the ATF on the Form 1. That is what I did.


You are modifying (making) the gun that was manufactured to Sig's certain specs that you are changing with a shorter barrel, shorter pistol brace, whatever. You now have modified and created a new gun. You asked for permission to make this gun and an Approved Form 1 allows you to manufacture this new SBR. However, You must engrave/have engraved your Trust/Name, City, State on the receiver.
A a reminder always have a copy of your Form 1 when you have the gun out and about at the range, etc. A good idea is take a picture of your Form 1 with your phone so you have the copy in case you need to show it.


Do you have documentation from the NfA on that ? when you fill out the form that I did, you had to put down the manufacture of the firearm and all the markings on the gun, after you get approval, changing the markings with your name city state , would be modifying the gun correct? I have a document from the NFA saying different.



I don't know why they have to make this so difficult, all of us who submit the forms and go thru the process are trying to do everything legally, I certainly have. nowhere in any documentation I have did they say I needed to engrave anything after it was appoved. good grief!!
July 11, 2019, 11:26 PM
hrcjon
I quoted above the exact requirement above directly from the Form 1.
You have to mark it. To see the requirement in common english just jump into the Form 1 instructions under 2 (j) which includes the relevant CFR citation if you want to go there.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
July 12, 2019, 06:33 AM
Blume9mm
they'll sure know where to show up and what to look for when the times comes with that kind of information....
July 12, 2019, 06:44 AM
DSgrouse
Having gone through 6 Efile forms 1's this year. I specifically asked during one of the ask a question dialogues during my process.


For SBR
You put the manufacturer(who made the federal firearm parts {ie AR lower}) Then you put your self as the Maker of the firearm.

At which point once you get the stamp, you need to engrave it with the "Maker" info (ie your name city, state). I did not get a clear answer as to if that needed to happen before assembly or could happen after.

The argument is that you only need engrave maker info if you sell the SBR as an SBR. I did not specifically ask if that is the case.

Now, I thought I would never find a reason for a SBR, Now i have a Kriss, MPX, BNT, AR15, and soon to be PTR-9kt plus a form 1 can. The stamp is an easy process. The going rate for engraving here is 70 bucks.
July 12, 2019, 08:33 AM
GroundedCLK
First question, just engrave it your better off doing so and it is required.

Second question, buy a second smaller barrel to use for the suppressor. That way if there is an issue you can reinstall the 8" barrel to restore to its original condition upon approval. It is completely legal to do this.
July 12, 2019, 01:52 PM
HRK
You have to engrave any firearm that you register on Form 1, it doesn't matter who made it first or if you built it or what you did to form 1 the firearm.

Link

The laws and regulations surrounding the National Firearms Act (NFA) can be confusing at best and downright daunting at their worst. In the Part 2 of the Beginner’s Guide to Suppressors we covered the proper completion of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATFE) Form 4 – Application to Transfer and Register a Firearm. What we haven’t covered (yet) is anything having to do with the BATFE Form 1 – the Application to Make and Register a Firearm, and the subsequent requirements to properly make an NFA item.

NFA firearms that begin their life at a licensed manufacturer are engraved with all of the markings required by law to be included in the registry. These markings are similar to those found on all of your Title 1 (non-NFA) guns: Manufacturer, Serial Number and location of manufacture. However, there are some small, yet very important differences in the engraving requirements for firearms that you make into NFA items.

* Standard disclaimer: I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice. You are responsible for marking your NFA Firearm in accordance with the law.

1) Do I have to engrave my NFA firearm?

First, and most importantly, YES, you have to engrave your Form 1 NFA item to be in proper compliance with the law. Some well established “sources of information” have erroneously reported that engraving is optional unless you plan to later sell your NFA firearm. I’ll repeat it: Every NFA item you make needs to be properly engraved.

2) What needs to be engraved on my NFA firearm?

Name of the individual or entity that made/registered the NFA firearm.

Location (City and State) where the NFA item was made.

Caliber of the registered NFA firearm.

Serial Number of the registered NFA firearm.

Model Number of the registered NFA firearm.*

* See below

EXAMPLE 1: A current firearm to be registered as an NFA firearm:

Let’s say you have just received your approved BATFE Form 1 to register your Colt 6920 as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) and it is time to mark your firearm.

Here are the current manufacturer markings (already on the gun and what you used to fill out the information on the Form 1):

COLT

LAW ENFORCEMENT CARBINE

CAL: 5.56MM

SN: 0000001

HARTFORD, CT

What now needs to be engraved by you, as the maker, to be in compliance with the NFA laws:

JOHN SMITH

OR

JOHN SMITH LIVING TRUST

If the item is registered to an entity.

ANYTOWN, CO

The location (City and State) where you actually made the firearm into an an NFA registered item.

Because the manufacturer (remember, you are the maker) already engraved the serial number, model and caliber, you are not required to re-engrave this information.



"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them." Winston Churchill
July 12, 2019, 02:45 PM
XLT
they could save allot people grief if they would simply state upon approval your name city state must be engraved in the receiver. Nobody is going to do it before if they think they have a chance of the approval being denied. The worst part is the finish is going to be ruined or open for rust.
July 12, 2019, 04:55 PM
SigM4
^^^Most reputable engravers will coat the engraved area. iDent Markings in Dallas, TX did all of mine and you wouldn’t notice a difference in the factory finish versus the area they engraved.



Success always occurs in private, and failure in full view.
July 12, 2019, 06:02 PM
Dwill104
The trigger for the engraving is the “making”, not the approval. Even if you have an approved F1, it’s not an SBR until you actually make it one by adding a short barrel to a rifle or by adding a stock to a pistol. Some people don’t make their SBR immediately after getting their F1 for various reasons, and it doesn’t have to be engraved with the makers name/city/state until it’s made.

Lots of people get their receiver engraved before getting their approved F1 so they can make the SBR immediately once they get their approval.