I'm thinking about getting a mantis for helping clean up my shooting. Has anyone used one and if so what are your thoughts on it? Thanks

-I have and use it now and for me atleast I've found that I'm improving. I would say the biggest effect on cleaning up my bad habits was putting a dot on a pistol but this is a good tool.

I like that I can pop it on a gun and get feedback on what people are doing even as we do mobile drills where folks are shooting under barricades and other obstacles. I'm more focused on overall safety at that point and sometimes I cant even see the entire gun, I get feedback on what they were doing regardless.

I also find its helpful for the especially prideful student as they cant hear about what they did but you show them on a computer and its gospel to them.

I can diagnose what students are doing faster. I had one kid who came out of the academy as a marginal shot and after running her through it I could see each issue she was having. I spoke to one of her previous trainers and he told me the issues he observed that she had over the 6 months he observed her which reflected exactly what the device told me in two training sessions. Also her shooting has improved since working through some of the drills.

Lastly I find that I use it and practice more and while you'll say I didnt need it to practice more....ok, I do practice more though. I attribute this to getting more variety when I practice and there are training sessions that would be hard to replicate all on my lonesome.

I am not saying nor do I think it replaces going to training or having someone watch you but you cant always be in training or be observed. I think its another tool in the toolbox and worth the money spent. YMMV

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Anubismp,

A solid dry fire program will be 105 percent less distracting.

These devices take your attention off of what matters.

I received the Mantis X3 last week. I’m not sure how it is distracting as the last poster claimed. You can dry or live fire and see in a quantifiable way what you are doing wrong with each trigger pull. Accelerometers and gyros are not gimmicks.

Or you can just watch the front sight and see the same thing without gimmicks.

I guess we should tell all the top shooters and tier one outfits how dumb they are for paying attention to the front sight.

These things seem to be extremely popular with people who like to talk about good trigger control, rather than have good trigger control.

Another gimmick in a long line of gimmicks.

A solid dry fire program builds good trigger control and gun handling. But, I tend to focus on doing it right than having a “quantifiable way” to see how I’m doing it wrong.

Most people have no idea what trigger control is, most schools don't know how to teach it, so its no wonder that gimmicks like this is popular. Why in the hell would you want to look at your phone to see if your trigger control is good, when the front sight and target tell you the same tale?

Take a class with someone who knows how to TEACH how to practice. Buy one or two of the dry fire books from the greats. Put down your phone. Rinse, lather, repeat.

But, then again, people look for a pill, magic potion, or gimmick to be good.

Where the hell did anyone call the professionals dumb? You are adding a lot of nonsense to this topic. The MantisX is a quality piece that supplements dry and live fire training. If it helps someone improve quicker then what is wrong with that? Try using it before you spew crap.

quote:

Originally posted by TSloper:
Where the hell did anyone call the professionals dumb? You are adding a lot of nonsense to this topic. The MantisX is a quality piece that supplements dry and live fire training. If it helps someone improve quicker then what is wrong with that? Try using it before you spew crap.

Wow. Solid dryfire is now nonsense. It does not help anyone "improve quicker". It doesn't teach you a thing. Not a magic pill. No rabbit, no hat.

I have fooled with it, and it offers NOTHING of value to a dry fire program. Nothing. Zip. Zero. It's a gimmick for those who want to feel like they are "doing something". Why would you want to use this thing in live fire? The target and your visual patience is what tells the tale in live fire training.

Are you being paid by Mantis, by chance? This is seemingly personal to you to go on the defensive of a gimmicky product this quick.

I would be happy to meet up when I teach in Florida and would be happy to shoot some timed stages, and we can compare whose practice session works better.

I have nothing to do with Mantis. I’m just a guy that thinks you are a tool for touting your approach is the only way in the fashion you have.

To the OP... buy it and return it if you don’t find it useful. If you take the time to get familiar with it I think it will be of value. Far more than big mouth here.

LOL.

Let's examine what the MantisX doesn't do.

-First and foremost, it teaches you NOTHING about trigger control.
-You can't use it with most holsters that you would normally use day to day, so draw fire ones are out of the picture.
-It requires one (make that two) power sources.
-You have to have it with you to train.
-If you run from one position to the other, it skews the data anyway.
-It distracts the shooter away from training and puts their nose into their phone.
-It's a pain in the ass.
-It does not differentiate a pre-ignition push, from post-ignition. It measures it as all one same.
-Magazine end caps are I’ll fitting and (gasp) cost extra.
-Does not provide data on actual metrics.
-The "coaching" tips are useless. They are mainly based off of the internet wheel. (Which actually have nothing to do with shooting the modern semi-automatic pistol, but were designed for one handed PPC shooting)

I can unload my carry gun anywhere and get 5-10 minutes of dry fire in anywhere, anytime that I can do it safely. And live fire training is nothing more than a test to see if what I am doing in dry fire is working.

It's just not the substitute for hard work that some claim. It is hindrance to those who actually know how to train, and a distraction to those who are trying to learn. It's another attempt to buy skill like those who generally buy $3,000 Glocks.

The truth sucks, I get it.

High speed marksmanship hasn't evolved since the 80's. It is all about aligning three sticks (or a dot in some cases) and pulling another stick to the rear. The front sight still tells the tale after all this time.

I haven't watched the videos in a while, but even the Mantis videos are laughable.

If you want to get better, actually learn how to train. If you want to buy yet another perfect Pull Up bar, or Jazzercize 9000, the Mantis is for you. It’s high tech snake oil.

I'll go as far as to say that I think that Mantis is the all natural male enhancement pill of the shooting community.

TSloper,

I know nothing of a "Mantis" so it doesn't matter to me either way.

jljones is an extremely accomplished instructor to say the least (and the farthest thing from a keyboard commando) so his advice is always solid whether he is blunt or not.

The latest gimmick. J jones has strong opinions on whatever topic he chooses. I would, however, agree with his assessment of the latest marketing device to improve your shooting. Dry fire is not exciting but it works.

quote:

Originally posted by TSloper:

Far more than big mouth here.

Wow.

I have been shooting pistol for over 2 decades and thought I knew how to shoot. Boy was I wrong! I was OK at the 5-7 yards distance, but beyond that I really sucked. Wanna know how I improved? It was not with something I bought! That's right I used Mr. Jones' tips on dry fire training.

I am no where near the level of the great shooters, but my groups at farther distances have tightened up. I still have a lot of practice to do if I want to get better, but I know what to work on now.

I have no experience with the Mantis but the big issue I see with it, is the lack of being able to draw, align sights and shoot.

I will say for me personally I have had good luck using a laser cartridge as an addition to basic dry fire. It provides a little more feedback and fun and has helped me quite a bit and will really accentuate a sloppy trigger pull. It also allows from holster presentation as well as provide a layer of visual identification of the firearm being unloaded.

Honestly though the old dime on the front sight works pretty well too.

I've played with it. While it gave some quantifiable information on the trigger press, it didn't really tell me "what" I was doing, or frankly, how it was deciding to quantify what I was doing.

If you want to spend money on something that will tell you about your trigger control, buy a red dot.

I have one. Kids gave it to me for Father's Day. I have been teaching people to shoot for decades, and endorsing dry firing as well.

I will admit that I like the Mantis. No, I can't draw from my holster, but it does reinforce proper grip, and trigger press.

Is it better than dry fire? No, probably not, but if using the Mantis will make you practice, dry fire or live fire, I can see no ill effects from using it.

quote:

Is it better than dry fire? No, probably not, but if using the Mantis will make you practice, dry fire or live fire,

This was my thought reading a few of the testimonials on their site, I bet those people just plinked at the range before and never really practiced, with this gizmo they are actually practicing in a more formal manner, hence the dramatic improvements. Doesn't mean the gizmo was the reason, run a different group through traditional dry fire practice and they would improve as well.

I buy what Jones is selling, figuratively and literally. I have trained with him and my trigger control is greatly improved. The "Bump Drill" was like one of those scenes in the movies where the sky opens and god reveals the truth to you
I took a class at another school, weeks later. We shot a drill at 5 yds, slow fire, at a 1" square. One neat hole with one shot hanging just low enough to make the hole not perfectly round. An instructor walked by and said "Not many of our instructors can shoot a group like that".

I haven't looked up what a Mantis is but I put a lot of stock in Jones' methods and it has been working out pretty well, for me.

YMMV,

Bruce

I agree with Jones.

I have a Mantis unit that I purchased new last year. I used it for a month or so and didn’t find it particularly helpful. Let me know if you’re interested in a good deal on a slightly used unit.

quote:

Mantis X3

Davenator - send me an email on the unit please, it's in my profile...



Interesting application of digital analysis of your shooting habits, good or bad, might be a good tool to add to the kit for some.

Agree that basic dry fire helps you id problems,, however that presumes the person doing the dry fire knows what to look for, and also how to correct the problem.

Most don't have a JLJ in their range bag to pull out whenever they need input, and that will require Travel to a course, hotels, etc ie money. Which is a great idea.

While we can say "practice practice practice" it doesn't do any good if you keep practicing the wrong thing the wrong way, you'll just end up with bad results. Maybe this will help someone make changes and see the results easier.

In golf you see a pro, get filmed, in basketball they have digital analysis cameras
that can show you your shot, and with a coach, improve.

Its not the panacea for poor shooting, however it might help id the problem. Addressing it and fixing the situation is another thing, altogether....

If someone wants to buy it and uses it properly to identify issues, then why all the fuss, it's still going to take range time and physical interaction, perhaps even coaching.

quote:

Originally posted by TSloper:
I have nothing to do with Mantis. I’m just a guy that thinks you are a tool for touting your approach is the only way in the fashion you have.

To the OP... buy it and return it if you don’t find it useful. If you take the time to get familiar with it I think it will be of value. Far more than big mouth here.

I am curious to know what unique value the Mantis system provided provided to you. What specifically did it do that was new and better? I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a demo.

Bruce