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Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
Thanks for the kind words, fellas.
I've got a dude with a 19 in class today. Same issue as the OP.
Grip was corrected and the problem went away.
I'm happy it works for so many people. Thanks again.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 37117 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
You dig
Picture of evolution
posted Hide Post
Jerry can go speak as to why this issue occurs with Glock but not M&P nor Sig pistols.

Thanks
 
Posts: 2602 | Location: Atlanta, GA | Registered: June 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
Grip angle, mainly.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 37117 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
Just as a little visual update.

Above I posted about a dude in class who was shooting a 19 over the weekend in Ohio. All of his rounds were going to the left (right handed shooter).

This was the final group he shot.



Five rounds. You can barely see the black ring from the circle he was shooting at. Yeah, I think he's got it fixed. Wink




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 37117 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Web Clavin Extraordinaire
Picture of Oat_Action_Man
posted Hide Post
How does the loosened support hand grip affect recoil management?

Without cranking that support wrist down, do you lose some control of muzzle rise?

I ask this because I'm one of those Glock shooters who always shoots left and a bit low, but in your video Jerry it looked like there was more muzzle rise than I'd expect.


----------------------------

Chuck Norris put the laughter in "manslaughter"

Educating the youth of America, one declension at a time.
 
Posts: 19837 | Location: SE PA | Registered: January 12, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
The grip actually locks out the strong wrist better.

Do this. Ball up a fist with your strong hand. Do it to where the knuckles start to turn white. Feel how easy it is to move the wrist. Now, make a fist with your off hand. Take your shooting hand and put it around your fist. Squeeze front to back and now look at how hard the wrist locks out.

If I ball up the fist, I attack the grip from all sides and it weakens the structure of the wrist. If I grip front to back, I do a much better job of locking that strong wrist. Most recoil management comes from the support wrist anyway.

Give it a try!




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 37117 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
You dig
Picture of evolution
posted Hide Post
I hate to report I had no success at improving today.

At this point I'm so disgusted with the situation I'm getting worse every time I go; so my Glock pistols are either going into long term storage in the safe or getting sold off.

I shoot both the M&P and the Sig much better than the Glock so after months of effort, I'm done.

Thank you J Jones and everyone else for trying to help.
 
Posts: 2602 | Location: Atlanta, GA | Registered: June 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Ok, here's what worked for me:

I put more pressure on the front strap and the rear back strap and ever so slight pressure on the sides of the grip. It sounds counter intuitive since I'm a Sig shooter, but it has worked for me with my Gen 4 19.

Good luck!!!


Glock 19
HK P2000sk
Sig P226
Spikes AR15 Middy
CA94 MP5 clone
 
Posts: 683 | Registered: May 28, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Learn it, know it, live it
Picture of 1lowlife
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by evolution:
I hate to report I had no success at improving today.

At this point I'm so disgusted with the situation I'm getting worse every time I go; so my Glock pistols are either going into long term storage in the safe or getting sold off.

I shoot both the M&P and the Sig much better than the Glock so after months of effort, I'm done.

Thank you J Jones and everyone else for trying to help.


Drift the rear sight.
It is your pistol, adjust it to your needs.
No one else has to like it.

I shot low and left with Glocks and XD pistols and it just took trigger time to adjust.

If you like the gun, drift the rear sight a bit and be done with it.
A simple solution to a simple problem.





If you don't like the gun, sell it off..
 
Posts: 4359 | Location: Great State of TEXAS | Registered: July 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I personally think dry fire is the cure all that many seem to, but I do think it will help in this situation. Dry fire practice with a spent case balanced on the front sight, or a coin, will help you try different grips till you find the right one. Problem is, the Glock need to be racked to reset, so it will be tedious balancing, firing, racking and balancing again.

I don't agree with anyone that says drift the sights unless it's been verified that the sights are indeed off. Because when you actually do things right, your shots will be off.

Selling them is a viable option as well. I've never warmed to Glocks myself. I have to "break" my wrist down a bit to level the sights, which I feel makes the felt recoil more pronounced, and thus requires a deliberate change to my grip than all my other pistols. So I just never bought one. However, in my opinion, if you can shoot a Glock well, it translates to any other platform. Like the inverse of a 1911 trigger which can mask fundamental deficiencies, mastering a Glock will improve all of your shooting.

Regardless, remember a lot of the reason we participate in the sport of shooting is for enjoyment. If it becomes too much work and no fun, there's no point. In other words, don't let frustration win too easily, but also don't let frustration turn you off to shooting all together.

Best of luck to you!


------------------------------------------------
Charter member of the vast, right-wing conspiracy
 
Posts: 1860 | Registered: June 25, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of trickedtrix
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Hey Evo what happens if you shoot one handed or off a rest? Your groups look great so without standing next to you at the range I would think the sights were the problem too, but you know yourself better than we do.


*Handguns are fine, Shotguns are final
 
Posts: 1236 | Location: IL | Registered: August 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of HayesGreener
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Assuming we are starting with the rear sight properly centered. I have always found it interesting that so many people, including myself, tend to shoot left with a Glock when they do better with another model gun. I saw it in the mid 80's when the Glock first arrived on the scene and still see it today. However, I did not see it in the Glock 26. Something in the ergonomics that I do not fully understand. Coming from the revolver world in the 60's and 70's, many of us felt the Glock was awkward in the hand. I don't see the same issue with a P320 or M&P. Not bashing the Glock here, just observing that one size does not fit all.


CMSGT USAF (Retired)
Chief of Police (Retired)
 
Posts: 4358 | Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: September 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
You dig
Picture of evolution
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by trickedtrix:
Hey Evo what happens if you shoot one handed or off a rest? Your groups look great so without standing next to you at the range I would think the sights were the problem too, but you know yourself better than we do.


One handed shots while not as tight tend to be more centered.

I'm really pretty OK with this, I was determined to beat it for the longest time. But it's costing me a lot of training time and dollars shooting hundreds of rounds a five yards.
 
Posts: 2602 | Location: Atlanta, GA | Registered: June 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
You dig
Picture of evolution
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Assuming we are starting with the rear sight properly centered. I have always found it interesting that so many people, including myself, tend to shoot left with a Glock when they do better with another model gun. I saw it in the mid 80's when the Glock first arrived on the scene and still see it today. However, I did not see it in the Glock 26. Something in the ergonomics that I do not fully understand. Coming from the revolver world in the 60's and 70's, many of us felt the Glock was awkward in the hand. I don't see the same issue with a P320 or M&P. Not bashing the Glock here, just observing that one size does not fit all.


I agree, I don't see this pattern repeat with the G43 nor the G42. I'm dead center with those two Glock pistols.

There is just something about that grip angle in combination with the grip thickness that causes a lot of people to shoot left.

I wish I were not one of them, but.... oh well.
 
Posts: 2602 | Location: Atlanta, GA | Registered: June 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
You dig
Picture of evolution
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BuddyChryst:
I personally think dry fire is the cure all that many seem to, but I do think it will help in this situation. Dry fire practice with a spent case balanced on the front sight, or a coin, will help you try different grips till you find the right one. Problem is, the Glock need to be racked to reset, so it will be tedious balancing, firing, racking and balancing again.

I don't agree with anyone that says drift the sights unless it's been verified that the sights are indeed off. Because when you actually do things right, your shots will be off.

Selling them is a viable option as well. I've never warmed to Glocks myself. I have to "break" my wrist down a bit to level the sights, which I feel makes the felt recoil more pronounced, and thus requires a deliberate change to my grip than all my other pistols. So I just never bought one. However, in my opinion, if you can shoot a Glock well, it translates to any other platform. Like the inverse of a 1911 trigger which can mask fundamental deficiencies, mastering a Glock will improve all of your shooting.

Regardless, remember a lot of the reason we participate in the sport of shooting is for enjoyment. If it becomes too much work and no fun, there's no point. In other words, don't let frustration win too easily, but also don't let frustration turn you off to shooting all together.

Best of luck to you!



All well said and exactly where I am!
 
Posts: 2602 | Location: Atlanta, GA | Registered: June 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by evolution:
quote:
Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Assuming we are starting with the rear sight properly centered. I have always found it interesting that so many people, including myself, tend to shoot left with a Glock when they do better with another model gun. I saw it in the mid 80's when the Glock first arrived on the scene and still see it today. However, I did not see it in the Glock 26. Something in the ergonomics that I do not fully understand. Coming from the revolver world in the 60's and 70's, many of us felt the Glock was awkward in the hand. I don't see the same issue with a P320 or M&P. Not bashing the Glock here, just observing that one size does not fit all.


I agree, I don't see this pattern repeat with the G43 nor the G42. I'm dead center with those two Glock pistols.

There is just something about that grip angle in combination with the grip thickness that causes a lot of people to shoot left.

I wish I were not one of them, but.... oh well.


I'm with you. The grip angle and my own deficiencies cause me to shoot them low left every time. I do the same with my SIGs, but it way less pronounced. If I spend the time to get the right grip and not get frustrated I can overcome my poor habits with SIG and many others, can't do it with Glocks, no matter how hard I try. I've just came to the conclusion they are not for me. I rather dedicate my time to a platform I love.

Thank goodness for SIGs. Now I just need to drop the time and money to get them right. I rather start with something I naturally shoot OK and improve to good/above average with them.

Good luck whether you drift, train, or abandon.



Jesse

Sic Semper Tyrannis
 
Posts: 20815 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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