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Big Stack
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Bruce, I have to question their level of engineering if they allowed a gun design out of the factory that was not drop safe. Yes, maybe they cleaned up the problem. But it did exist.

quote:
Originally posted by Grayguns:
I read some amazing stuff on Sigforum these days, but ”Crumbled in his hands” stands apart.

The P320 is now the most thoroughly engineered, revised, tested and proven-reliable service pistol system in history. Don’t even talk to me about anything else in that realm because nobody else has put their products through the wringer like SIG (and their humble associates) have.

-Bruce
 
Posts: 18100 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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BBMW, you keep harping on this, but don't really seem to get it. Let's try this, and we'll use a cars for the analogy, say maybe a BMW for a hypothetical.

So the NHTSA and IIHS have all kinds of safety tests for cars, right? Head on, side impact, side pole impact, rollover, etc. Just like there's various pistol drop tests. Now let's say a BMW model is in an accident where it is hit at highway speeds off the front passenger side, causing the dashboard from that side to separate and fly into the driver. Now this isn't part of the normal tests, because it's unlikely in the US for that angle of a head-on to occur. But the family is sure it's a defective design so they have a bunch of testing done and are unable to replicate the issue at first. Until they find that if the car is hit at exactly 30 degrees off the front passenger, at speeds exceeding a combined 110 mph, it does happen.

BMW made a car that's unsafe! Don't ever drive a BMW, because you might get in such an accident. Sure, it's unlikely to happen outside of the testing facility, especially since in the US, cars going in opposite directions pass each other on the drivers side. So for this to occur, a very certain set of circumstances would have to occur.

Now BMW runs tons of crash tests, probably more than anyone (except maybe Volvo). They do three times as many tests as are outlined by NHTSA and IIHS. They had even run tests at the 30 degree angle, but only at 75 mph.

But BMW decides to go ahead and offer to all owners that they're willing to change the dashboards out of all of the affected models, to a lighter weight material so it doesn't have as much inertia and sticks rather than fly into the driver.

How outraged are you really at BMW?


------------------------------------------------
Charter member of the vast, right-wing conspiracy
 
Posts: 1407 | Registered: June 25, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of slyguy
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I really like my 320. It's one of the regulars to take to the range and I've put hundreds of rounds through mine with zero issues.

I have been very happy with it prior and post sending it to Sig.

There should be zero issues with any newer models.
 
Posts: 655 | Location: Valley Oregon | Registered: May 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
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I really like the P320 and would not hesitate to buy one today. But I saw this and still laughed.





Georgia Carry Member Calguns Foundation Member Second Amendment Foundation Member NRA Lifetime Member

Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets. -bionic218 04-02-2014

 
Posts: 12650 | Location: Georgia | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Rule #1: Use enough gun
Picture of Bigboreshooter
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quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Bruce, I have to question their level of engineering if they allowed a gun design out of the factory that was not drop safe.

I wonder if Sig had the foresight to test the P320 to see if it was safe to fire when wearing a yellow shirt? Roll Eyes

They tested it to government and industry standards. Please list all the gun companies that tested their guns for the negative 30 degree drop test, or whatever it was called, before the issue came up with the P320. Please be specific.



When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. Luke 11:21


"Every nation in every region now has a decision to make.
Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." -- George W. Bush

 
Posts: 14254 | Location: Birmingham, Alabama | Registered: February 25, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
I really like the P320 and would not hesitate to buy one today. But I saw this and still laughed.



That is funny I don’t care who you are.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 31747 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bigboreshooter:
They tested it to government and industry standards. Please list all the gun companies that tested their guns for the negative 30 degree drop test, or whatever it was called, before the issue came up with the P320. Please be specific.

List the other guns that FAIL a negative 30 drop, or fire when hit on the back of the slide with a hammer.

Be specific.

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:



That is funny I don’t care who you are.

Yes indeed. Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
 
Posts: 39015 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Unapologetic Old
School Curmudgeon
Picture of Lord Vaalic
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I had a couple of P320s, they were fine pistols. I sold them because for 9mm, they just felt chunkier in my hand than my Glocks. I am actually interested in a P320 Compact .45, and was a little bummed that the .45 and 9mm were not compatible, but not too much. I didn't really buy it for the "modularity". In the end I would give mine an "A", its just for me I give the Glocks "A+" so I stayed with them


---------------------------------
- "This town reminds me of something in the bible."
- "Which part?"
- "The part right before god gets angry"
 
Posts: 8219 | Location: TN | Registered: December 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moderator
Picture of arcwelder76
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Bruce, I have to question their level of engineering if they allowed a gun design out of the factory that was not drop safe. Yes, maybe they cleaned up the problem. But it did exist.

quote:
Originally posted by Grayguns:
I read some amazing stuff on Sigforum these days, but ”Crumbled in his hands” stands apart.

The P320 is now the most thoroughly engineered, revised, tested and proven-reliable service pistol system in history. Don’t even talk to me about anything else in that realm because nobody else has put their products through the wringer like SIG (and their humble associates) have.

-Bruce


BBMW, there was a 90 some page thread to get this out of your system, and we don't really need a rehash. In a nutshell though, let me summarize it like this:

The P320 passed established safety testing, and is an entirely new design. If you're unaware of what a pistol can go through after it is deemed safe and released to the public, I recommend reviewing the history of another innovative polymer pistol, the G17. You will find some very interesting safety issues, that are now so far in the past that they are all but forgotten.

The P320 is here to stay, and it's actually a very good firearm. Bruce doesn't deserve to get climbed on over this, certainly not after the long and often ridiculous thread. If you want some more, just go read through the damned thing.


Arc.
______________________________

"Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash

"I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman

Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM

"You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP

 
Posts: 24639 | Location: Love that dirty water, oh | Registered: June 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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The reason I posted this here is because Bruce Gray posted here. I participated in the thread you mentioned, I think one of the things I said was that I wondered what Bruce's thoughts on the issue were. But IIRC, he never posted in there. So seeing that he's commenting on it here now, I felt the need to bring it up.

quote:
Originally posted by arcwelder76:
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Bruce, I have to question their level of engineering if they allowed a gun design out of the factory that was not drop safe. Yes, maybe they cleaned up the problem. But it did exist.

quote:
Originally posted by Grayguns:
I read some amazing stuff on Sigforum these days, but ”Crumbled in his hands” stands apart.

The P320 is now the most thoroughly engineered, revised, tested and proven-reliable service pistol system in history. Don’t even talk to me about anything else in that realm because nobody else has put their products through the wringer like SIG (and their humble associates) have.

-Bruce


BBMW, there was a 90 some page thread to get this out of your system, and we don't really need a rehash. In a nutshell though, let me summarize it like this:

The P320 passed established safety testing, and is an entirely new design. If you're unaware of what a pistol can go through after it is deemed safe and released to the public, I recommend reviewing the history of another innovative polymer pistol, the G17. You will find some very interesting safety issues, that are now so far in the past that they are all but forgotten.

The P320 is here to stay, and it's actually a very good firearm. Bruce doesn't deserve to get climbed on over this, certainly not after the long and often ridiculous thread. If you want some more, just go read through the damned thing.
 
Posts: 18100 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moderator
Picture of arcwelder76
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He never posted in there?

Perhaps you should review the thread. Let me know if I'm mistaken.


Arc.
______________________________

"Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash

"I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman

Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM

"You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP

 
Posts: 24639 | Location: Love that dirty water, oh | Registered: June 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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Okay, on further review, I'm conflating the P320 and P365 situations. It was the latter where I was hoping for Bruce's participation. Yes, he did participate in the P320 discussion. I was incorrect.
 
Posts: 18100 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you want the 45 compact and modularity you just need to start with the 45 Fcu. All you lose apparently is the magazine takedown safety. Which is meaningless to me.

My G19 is slightly smaller but I shoot my 320 better and I like to stipple which I won’t do on a Glock frame because I’m a pussy. 30 dollar module doesn’t scare me.

Of course now that I know the gun might just crumble you guys should check classifieds because I’m selling them all now.
 
Posts: 1855 | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Misanthropic Philanthrope
Picture of MWC
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I like the 320 and think it's a damned fine handgun. Personally, I wasn't worried about the drop safety because, well, don't go dropping your gun!

Anything mechanical can fail in the right conditions, like I learned yesterday when the liner lock on a knife failed and I have a nasty cut on my hand. Not the knife's fault. I just set up all the right conditions for the failure to occur.

We play with some dangerous items and when something bad happens it's almost always because we've done something to set the stage.

Now, I did get the 320 upgrade, but only so the system remains compatible with caliber exchange kits and other modularity features.

Ta-ta for now.


___________________________
Originally posted by Psychobastard:
Well, we "gave them democracy"... not unlike giving a monkey a loaded gun.

 
Posts: 6514 | Registered: June 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
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I like my 9mm compact with night sights, purchased June 2017. I had it safety-upgraded and like it better now. I still slightly prefer the CZ P-01. But there is a qualifier there. I had to spend extra money on the P-01 to make it usable, and I still haven't put night sights on it yet. The P320 needs nothing else.
 
Posts: 20720 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The 320 always is compared to the Glock, so here is my take on both:
For years, I carried the Glock(19/26). It was reliable, accurate, and impervious to sweat,etc.Having a lower back injury, weight was important for all day carry, and as much as I liked my Sigs, the Glock 19, fully loaded, weighs as much as my 229 weighs empty. The only down side was the Glock did not fit my hand. During extended range sessions, the bottom of my trigger finger rubbed on the inside of bottom of the trigger guard and would leave a blister. The trigger wasn’t great, but could be improved.

I purchased my first 320 about six months ago, a Compact 9mm. Mine was born on 8 Dec 2017(Post recall/update). The medium grip fits my hand like it was molded just for my hand. The bore is higher than the Glock, but doesn’t seem to make any difference in recoil. The trigger seems much better than the Glock, smoother, with a more noticeable reset. No malfunctions so far in 1500 Rds. While the Glock was accurate, the 320 was more accurate. I liked the 320C so much, I got a 320FS in 9mm and like it just as much as the Compact. As it becomes more popular, accessories will be more available. The 320 is the gun I have been looking for- a Glock-type action that fits my hand,is light weight,accurate, and reliable. Works great for me!


A superior pilot is best defined as one who uses his superior judgment to avoid situations requiring the use of his superior skill.
 
Posts: 252 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: June 15, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I had a pre-recall P320 Compact 9mm and it was a great shooter. I did not drop it. And I don't drop my Series 70 1911 either. But I sold the gun to a guy who just had to have it. I now EDC a P320 Compact .45 with manual safety. I was the beta tester on this gun, since the recoil spring assembly shot out of the front of the slide after about 50 rounds. Back to Sig it went and now, at the 1500 round mark, functions fine. I added a flat trigger from GGI and in combination the manual safety, gives the gun a very custom 1911 trigger feel. And I recently bought the pre-recall gun back and its now back at Sig for the upgrade.
There were some initial P320 problems but they seem overblown to me. When the 9mm comes back from Sig it will get a GGI trigger too.
Is the P320 the equal (or better) than the Glock? That would be a personal choice, but for me it is.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 6855 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola:
Personally I am on a Beretta 92 kick. I have a pair of Elite LTT’s on the way. That being said, I have 5 320’s and I shoot them better than any gun I’ve ever owned. All of them hac been upgraded because I don’t need the shoot myself in the forehead. Triggers are very good, ergo’s are spot on for me with some stippling home brew, and I love the modularity.

Will you post a review and some pics of the Berettas when you get them? A few years ago I traded in 3 Berettas, 2 92's and a px4 and I regret it every day. I keep thinking I need to get back to themSmile

Yes, they are the real deal. Some teething issues which I would have rather avoided. Welcome to gun buying 2018 style though. Buy with confidence if it’s upgraded.


p229Extreme/P226Tac-Ops/P226 Extreme/P226 SAO) P226 X-5 Blue Moon/P226 X-5 Black and White

 
Posts: 654 | Registered: March 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I own 2 of them: a compact 9mm with a X-Carry frame and one of those amazing Grayguns PELT2 triggers and a compact 45. Both went back for the trigger recall even though neither really needed it. I even accidentally dropped the 9mm while loaded and it didn't go off. The 9mm had the double click trigger initially but it didn't seem to hurt anything - gone since the recall update.

I've had no issues with either of these pistols - none.
 
Posts: 435 | Location: Arizona | Registered: February 05, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of rappa
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I have a post recall 320c and 320RXc. Zero issues.
 
Posts: 244 | Location: Largo,FL USA | Registered: December 23, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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