So just like my tag line reads, I am living behind the tofu curtain of California and as such, fall victim to its gun laws. This is a fact that I am in the process of rectifying, and will be moving to the freedom and liberty of Tennessee within the year. Since my impending parole from freedom sucking communists is within view, I have been test driving some goodies when I travel to my home state of Washington.

My latest comparison was the M&P 2.0 vs the CZ P10c, both in 9mm. The short version is, "I liked them both," but I'm guessing that's not quite enough information for most. I shot 100 rounds through both pistols on an indoor range, which limited the speed I was allowed to shoot. Controlled pairs were acceptable to the range officer as long as I, "Kept them all on the paper." After a brief demonstration of my safety and gun control skills, I was given the green light to have at it.

First up - M&P 2.0 full size, no safety:

Handling impressions:

in an effort to be fully transparent; I own 2 M&P pistols, a full size and a compact, both in 45ACP. I like the platform, especially with Apex trigger parts, so the 2.0 felt very familiar. The new grip texture is the bomb. Perfect, in every way. Grippy enough but not abrasive. I have Large / X-large hands, and the medium grip insert on the range gun seemed to fit me just fine. I may try some others, but would most likely stay with the medium. It felt as though my hand was a bit higher on the gun than my series one gun, but that could be just the difference between a 9mm gun and a .45. The trigger is a HUGE improvement over any stock M&P trigger I have ever touched. When fondling the gun before shooting it, I didn't think it would need anything but range time. I happen to be in the minority that actually likes the pivoting trigger on the M&P series, so no issues there. The pull was fairly smooth with a slightly spongy stack before the break, with a very nice and short-ish reset. The reset is very tactile and positive, even audible. Everything else about the gun should be quite familiar if you have any time with an M&P. Fit and finish seemed on par with most Poly guns, better than most I would say. I did notice the mag rattled a bit in the gun, even when loaded.

On the range my opinion of the M&P 2.0 when from good to great. My slow fire groups from 7 yards (with the exception of 1 flyer) could be covered by a quarter - one big hole just a bit to the left of the X ring. Touching off a couple mags from low ready was equally satisfying and proved to be quite easy to put them in one nice little circle. Controlled pairs were more of the same, with somewhat of a larger circle, but easily covered with the palm of my hand. I did notice my groups tended to shoot to the left of center as the speed increased, I am taking full responsibility for that.
The recoil impulse is soft and very flat. The front blade settled right back between the goal posts with boring repeat-ability.

My only real criticism of the gun was the trigger. At the counter is seemed very workable, but on the range I became very aware of the spongy stacking before the break. I found myself trying to manage it, which made me like it even less. I came away certain I would call Apex and get parts on the way before I when to the gun counter and payed my money for one.

All in all, a very comfortable and controllable gun with no blaring issues. "Yep, I need me one of those."


CZ P10c:

Handling impressions:

Also a very nice gun, maybe not quite as well finished as the M&P, but very very solid. The first thing I noticed was the terrorist level grip texturing on the replaceable back-strap. The rest of the grip is fine, but the back-strap is a full on cheese grater. I wasn't sure how much (if any) negative effect it would have on the range, so I saved my final judgment for the post range debriefing. The ambi mag release was placed close enough for thumb activation without changing my grip, but too far back to activate it with my trigger finger like I do with most of my guns. I have both push button and paddle type releases in my personal arsenal and find the use of my trigger finger enables me to transition from one platform to the other without any lag time. The trigger is great, with no qualifiers needed. It is short, light with a crisp break with no perceivable over-travel and a reset that should be the model for every production handgun manufacturer in our solar system.

On the range the gun is a shooter. My slow fire groups were just slightly larger than the M&P, but at speed they were smaller. This guns shoots so flat it is mind blowing. It is the flattest shooting gun in a defensive cartridge I have ever shot. Period. The recoil impulse is light, if just a bit more than the M&P, and it is accurate. This is a gun that wants to be shot fast, in In fact, the faster I shot it, the better it felt. I was starting to get the attention of the range officer, who at one point, came and stood behind me as I emptied a magazine. I thought for a minute I may be in trouble, but when I turned around, he was smiling at me and said, "quite a shooter isn't it?" Yes sir, it is.

So mesmerized by its flat shooting dynamics, I found myself shooting a few rounds and then just staring at the thing like an idiot. Wow.

The slide release had gotten some press for being difficult to release with your thumb, but this particular gun was not an issue in the slightest, maybe as a range rental it is worn itself in.

So not the bad stuff: Even though it is slightly larger than a Glock 19, the trigger reach is quite short. So short in fact that I found that the knuckle of my trigger finger was above the trigger pivot pin, which had the pad of my trigger finger pointed down and into the trigger guard. This geometry had the pad of my finger riding along the bottom of the trigger guard and interfacing with the trigger at its tip, this was very uncomfortable. A larger back-strap may rectify that, but since this was a rental gun, I was unable to test that theory. It is something I would make sure to check before I made a purchase. The other issue for me was the back-strap checkering. As stated before I have rather large hands, and they are not sensitive sissy hands. When I read others comments on the P10's grip, all I could think was. "what a bunch of cry babies." Well, I guess I'm one of them, because after 100 rounds of shooting, my palm was sore. As configured, I would not take this gun to a class that required high round counts without some sort of girly hand intervention. I'm thinking rubber Talons would be the ticket, unless you have pro level Drummel skill and magnifying glasses. Also, the magazine release seems to work well if you press it straight in, but requires more pressure if you try and roll your thumb over it in a back to front fashion. Not a bad thing, just noticeable.

The wrap up:

They are both great guns, and shows how far the industry has come in a very shot time. It also illustrates the immense influence Glock has made on the direction of the entire industry. I personally like both guns more than than any Glock I have ever owned, but am humble enough to admit that neither of them may be an option for me if it weren't for the innovation of Mr. Glock.

I know I will buy the M&P once I tunnel under the wall, and will investigate the hand fit variables for the CZ. As a carry gun, Im not sure the P10c provides enough of a size difference over the M&P to make it an obvious choice, especially when I compare it against my PPS or a Shield. But it is a very interesting pistol that, if it stays together, should be a major player in the compact pistol market.

M2.0: While holding one's breath for Apex to have a full on Competition kit for M2.0 (as they do have for M1.0) note that (for now) they have recommended replacing sear with "two dot Apex" sear. My experience is that this substitution brings the required trigger force down to a little under a measured 4.5 pounds-force.

M2.0 advantages include actually being able to purchase a M2.0 and the expectation of further improvements via. Apex.

Nick...thank you for reviewing two of the striker fired guns I'm most interested in. Excellent stuff.

I've held both, shot neither, was leaning toward 2.0 until I've started hearing stuff about how flat the P10C shoots. I like flat shooting pistols....hmm....

"Flat" shooting? Less muzzle flip under recoil?

Objective review, well done. I've come to like the m&p compacts myself. Size, ergos & performance are quite satisfactory. I can't emphasis the size factor enough. Its small enough to carry comfortable and shoots like a larger pistol. I'm keen to see how what the 2.0 compact will perform.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
"Flat" shooting? Less muzzle flip under recoil?

Exactly.

quote:

Originally posted by dehughes:
Nick...thank you for reviewing two of the striker fired guns I'm most interested in. Excellent stuff.

I've held both, shot neither, was leaning toward 2.0 until I've started hearing stuff about how flat the P10C shoots. I like flat shooting pistols....hmm....

I really enjoyed the shooting dynamics of the P10c, but it's not a good fit for my hand. If there are options out there to increase the length of pull (like Apex did with the forward set sear on the M&P's) I would feel great about spending money on the fit. I think it would be worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by Nick:

quote:

Originally posted by dehughes:
Nick...thank you for reviewing two of the striker fired guns I'm most interested in. Excellent stuff.

I've held both, shot neither, was leaning toward 2.0 until I've started hearing stuff about how flat the P10C shoots. I like flat shooting pistols....hmm....

I really enjoyed the shooting dynamics of the P10c, but it's not a good fit for my hand. If there are options out there to increase the length of pull (like Apex did with the forward set sear on the M&P's) I would feel great about spending money on the fit. I think it would be worth it.

Interesting. Thanks. I REALLY liked the feel-in-hand of the 2.0, and was less than impressed with the trigger of the P10C I handled. BUT, I know that triggers change over time, and holding a pistol vs. seeing how it behaves in-use are two different things, so I'm inclined to give the P10C a shot at some point regardless.

Again, thanks for a very timely, perfect review of these two.

I have owned both and still have the M&P. The P10c was ok but not worth all the hype. My Canik TP9SFX blows them both away.

As someone else very interested in these 2 pistols, thanks for the great write-up.

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:
I have owned both and still have the M&P. The P10c was ok but not worth all the hype. My Canik TP9SFX blows them both away.

What made you keep the M&P and ditch the P10C?

Enjoyed your review of 2 pistols I like.
I own a 2.0 9mm and had been thinking about the P 10c as a future purchase .

Just my 2 cents.

I have the P10 C in FDE. After the first initial 350 rounds, I was going to sell it because it felt like I was fighting the pistol every time I tried to shoot it and hit POA. Then, I swapped out the medium for the large back strap and installed Talon rubber grips (BTW, the Talon 'Moss" is a dead ringer for the CZ FDE).


MAJOR IMPROVEMENT!!!
Now POA = POI (2 to the body and one to the head in under 3 seconds at 7 yards from the holster).

Add to that, the trigger has noticeably gotten crisper in its release and has lost allot of the stacking.

Now, as soon as S&W adds the M2.0 in a FDE in the 4.25" slide configuration, I may look into that as well.