|The Whack-Job |
Working in a high end LGS, which is a Sig Master dealer, I have noticed that the Sig 1911s don't move. While I am not a 1911 fan, these Sig 1911s seem well built and reasonably priced. Especially when you compare them to Kimbers.
The C3 is a pistol that tempts me to use a 1911 again.
So what is it? Is it the external extractor? The integral rails? Why are these very nice 1911s not more popular? Regards 18DAI
Blue lives matter.
Everyone I talk to that are 1911 enthusiasts don’t like the external extractor.
I love my XO. I don’t even notice it.
As a guy who loves both SIG Sauer, and the 1911, I can tell you I haven't bought a SIG 1911 because I find the external extractor to completely destroy the aesthetics of the design for me. I don't care if it is technically a more reliable design. Truth be told, if I *need* a pistol that is flawlessly reliable, I am not reaching for ANY 1911 period.
I appreciate the 1911 for what it is... An iconic design that generally offers the opportunity for great accuracy when properly tuned as a result of an exceptionally good trigger. I don't see the 1911 as a modern fighting gun. Can you shoot an enemy with one? Sure. But, if you must go into harms way with only a pistol, I would suggest one with more capacity, less parts, and a better reputation for reliable function.
Also, before anyone comes on here telling us how their 1911 has ran 100 percent through a half million rounds without cleaning, etc.... Save it. There is nothing you can say that will convince me that you aren't either A) a liar, or B) the luckiest person to ever have fired a pistol.
Short answer: The external extractor
SIG SAUER...... Get you some!
|His diet consists of black|
coffee, and sarcasm.
I'm sure poor design and quality control issues in their early days didn't help. I had one of those turds myself, a Revolution Carry in 2007. This may be outdated, but the shape of the slide (probably meant to evoke the P-series) made it difficult to find holsters. For that matter, I haven't had any luck with 1911s, period. I had two others and they wouldn't run either.
Who do you think of when the 1911 pistol is mentioned? That answer plus the extractor.
I've had 3 Sig 1911's and they were all good but nothing spectacular. Never carried them and not because they were unreliable but because as mentioned above, I'd rather have a bit more capacity.
To those that do carry them, if it works for you, stick with it. Better than throwing rocks.
I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
The sigs are nice. They have different parts and some have different dimensions that require different holsters. The 1911 is one of the very few handguns that have a plethora of manufacturers and parts. Some are milspec/standard and fit most 1911s, and some models aka the sig and others, use some of their own proprietary parts and dimensions. Hence they are not as popular. Why buy an off spec or non standard 1911? Unless it is so super bad awesome that milspec folks all switch over, it is basically a niche non standard/spec 1911 with a much smaller market base.
Not bashing the sig, just explaining the reality. Smith has an external extractor and kimber has made some. Simply has not become the standard, as of yet, and most likely never will.
All I can tell you is that, when I was looking for my first 1911, my LGS down the street had two candidates: A Sig and a Remington. This may draw howls of outrage from Sig fans, but the Remington was nicer than the Sig in every single respect. The trigger on the Sig was particularly unimpressive for a 1911. I bought the Remington.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
My Nightmare Carry is excellent.
End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
I have had one Sig 1911. Traded it off for something i thought i "had" to have at the time. It was an accurate and reliable 1911 through about the thousand rounds i put through it.
Its funny, I don't think there is any question that if done correctly, the external extractor is more reliable design than the inbternal. If/when i get back into 1911's i probably will get another Sig because of this.
There are 2 primary reasons, IMO.
1. The market for inexpensive 1911s is taken up by quite a few manufacturers, most of them making a better “1911” than Sig. And of course those that want a 1911 but instead go for a 1911 looking gun that has an external extractor (1911 clone) is very small.
2. They are junk. At least the one I owned and every other I’ve handled.
External extractor is the biggest detractor in my opinion and from what I’ve seen. I would say it’s a tossup between price, initial problems during their 1st launch years ago, and slight departure from standard designs as the remaining reasons why they don’t sell more. I know I would not consider adding a new 1911 that had an external extractor. Part of the allure of the 1911 to me is the standardized parts. All internal extractor 1911s utilize an interchangeable extractor, the same is not true of external extractors.
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**Any advice given should not be considered legal counsel and used for entertainment purposes only**
-It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
I have 2 Sig 1911's. A C3 and an Ultra and both are fine pistols. I changed out the triggers on both and had them worked over and they are now silky smooth. I've owned and shot various 1911's for 50+ years and I never became a snob toward them. I just like how they feel in my hand and I can shoot them more accurately than many other pistols I own. I'm not going to bash the purist's regarding the extractor. I just don't care as long as they work as they should, which they do.
To each his own, I guess.
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll have to be a horrible warning" -Catherine Aird
^^^ All of this ^^^
S&W 1911 has the external extractor but everything else is basically 1911.
But the SIG....oh boy
Also the earlier ones had different slide dimensions on all of them and none of them would fit any of the normally available holsters. So most people saw them as a copy of a 1911 but not a 1911.
I have a S+W 1911, it's a nice looking gun. It sheered the slide stop in the first 200 rounds. I put another one in it and it sheered that one in less than 200 rounds. I think the barrel link was off or something, I sent it to S+W, they paid shipping both ways, cleaned up the trigger which was pretty good to start...… (I put a note in there asking how much to do a trigger job on it), the gunsmith called me up and said there's not much we can do with the trigger, I just measured it and it's 3.5 lbs and he kind of chuckled (it wasn't before I sent it), they also put nice wood grips in the box and sent it back and it's been fine. It's a nice looking gun, but for some reason my Colts just feel better shooting them and it sits in my safe and I haven't shot it in at least 5-7 years. I usually grab my Ed Brown kobra for .45 (My WC sits in the safe too) and my Colt Competition when I want to shoot 9mm.
Had a Sig 1911 for on duty use for a while. Gray Guns did a lot of work on the gun to get it to run. Once they were done, it ran like a top. Regret selling it but that is how firearms go. I did have a COLT for a short time, before deciding to stick with my P-Series Sigs for duty carry.
Yoop, I had that model also. I never had a problem with it and it shot very nicely.
The XO was my 1st Sig 1911 and it was good too.
Last Sig 1911 was the Ultra Compact in 9mm. It didn't like 115gr until I ran some heavier loads through it. It was fine afterwards.
The couple Colts I've had didn't have any issues and they seemed more comfortable to me personally. They also looked better IMO.
Now all I have is a beater Springfield Mil spec 1911. Runs good though but the previous owner treated her badly and the idiot mark plus all the scratches make it look bad.
I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
As an owner of Sig 1911s, I'd say it's because they're really nothing more than an "also ran".
First off, as they say "If it's not a Colt, it's a copy."
Colt is the original and always will be. As a collector piece, Colt will likely always be the one with the best resale value and collector appeal.
For factory guns, SIG is just another mass produced pistol, combined with the fact that they no longer can claim "no MIM parts". The GSR had interest for the fact that they used to use some of the best internals. SIG can no longer make that claim.
The competition is getting better. It used to be that a person would either get a Colt or a high end gun like Wilson, Brown, Baer, etc. Now Dan Wesson is making great 1911s with the same "no MIM parts" standard that SIG used to have. Dan Wesson took the factory gun to a new level.
So, I think it's a case where SIG economized themselves out of the market. Today there's not much reason to choose a SIG over a Kimber since they are both of the same MIM ilk. Of the two of them, Kimber likely has the better name recognition, which for me means nothing as I will NEVER own a Kimber (or a new SIG 1911 for that matter.)
Yes, yes and.. having the first one's out of the gate come with very non-1911, P series looking slides. That and the extractor turned 1911 fans off and they never got re-interested.
Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911.
|The Whack-Job |
I was originally trained on 1911s and a Colt Combat Elite was the first semi auto I owned. Back then, it was reliable, for a semi auto in the late 80s.
Kimbers probably did more to put me off 1911s than anything else. I had three and NONE of them could get through a mag without a stoppage. I spent a lot of money shipping them back and forth to Yonkers and buying ammo and mags to complete the "break in period" which varied from 200 to 800 rounds depending on which rep answered the phone in Yonkers and how many times the gun had been back to the factory for repairs. NEVER AGAIN!
I figure I have about 12 years left of carrying a gun everyday, for work and I don't shoot near as much as I use to. Maybe 200 - 300 rounds a month these days. I no longer buy over a dozen guns a year, maybe ome or two a year. I thinned the herd four years ago, but still have around 25 handguns. Only 3 get carried regularly.
I like 45s for serious purpose and have carried a S&W 3rd gen 45 for almost two decades. Recently I started looking for a new/used compact 45 for daily carry. I wanted an aluminum frame, match grade barrel and 3 to 4 inch barrel length with a 7+1 capacity. I looked hard at 1911 offerings and shot a few. I even recertified on 1911s with a local trainer.
But the guns I looked at had spotty reliability, ate recoil springs in under 1K rounds and the manufacturers were real proud of their products. The Sig C3 was almost a purchase as was the 3 inch so called "pro" model from the company calling itself s&w. The Colt Defender was another choice too.
In the end, I picked up a shooter grade Performance Center (from back when that really meant something) aluminum framed Recon 45. TDA with a 3.75 match grade barrel and Briley bushing. Thin, light weight, accurate, reliable, 7+1 and looks good doing all that. And it has an external extractor.
The external extractor is not something that bothers me. In looks or performance. I think 1911 fans, which I am not, are missing out on some pretty nice guns if that is the only disqualifier. Regards 18DAI
Blue lives matter.
In my part of the country 1911's have fallen almost completely out of favor, save for classics like WWI era ones. I think the last one we sold I bought in June, an older Gold Cup. I think that back when most folks only carried a gun in a case to and from the range, a big, powerful 1911 made sense. Now that many of us carry daily, one of the many, many micro or subcompact guns are just more practical.
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