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SIGSauer
Anthropologist
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When you are changing the front sight post according to some recommendations you will run into the same problem when you are changing distances. How about some applied shooting concepts. Find POA for each distance with the sight picture of your preference. This way you will become independent from references and it works. I’m doing it for 30plus years successfully. What are you believing how hickoc45 is aiming?
 
Posts: 3518 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: January 24, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by OTD:
What are you believing how hickoc45 is aiming?

True.
The gong is, what, 80 yards? I agree he's compensating. Certainly. And you're correct... at distance. My point of reference is the distances I've used CZ's, Colts, et al, to achieve similar results. Which are markedly different than what my 250's are giving me.

Great information, and a broader exposure to many more experiences than I could gather just by asking around.

The power of forums.

Thanks!

String
 
Posts: 71 | Registered: May 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I did a little testing last year. The target on the left was shot using sight picture 3 and the target on the right was shot using sight picture 2. Head shots were at 7 yards and body shots were about 20 yards.



One interesting thing I noticed was that it was impossible to line up the top of the sights and the dots at the same time. If the top of the sights were lined up, the front dot was a bit higher than the rear dots and if all 3 dots were lined up, then the top of the front sight was a bit lower than the top of the rear sights.

The take away from this for me is that you can use either the #2 or #3 sight picture, just make sure you have whichever reference point you will be using properly aligned with the rear sight.

When I did this, there was no practical difference.


------------------------------
"They who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause."
- Senator Amidala (Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith)
 
Posts: 1105 | Location: Southwest Ohio | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
SIGSauer
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quote:
Originally posted by Stringdriver:
quote:
Originally posted by OTD:
.....

True.
....My point of reference is the distances I've used CZ's, Colts, et al, to achieve similar results. Which are markedly different than what my 250's are giving me.......

Thanks!

String


It does not relate to the sight picture, but we are experiencing a lot of low impacts with modern type DAO pistols like the P250 or the HK versions with similar trigger concepts when the shooter is new to the gun. The issues you are describing where similar to what I experienced with a HK P30V4 when I shot it for the first time. Police forces of the state of Baden-Würtemberg in Germany had similar issues in the beginning and had to change the training concept for that reason. There was a loud outcry of the population blaming HK to ship inaccurate, low quality guns for big money until some commissions found out it being the training concept not the gun. This might probably be an issue to be evaluated as well when you take the pistol to the range next time.
 
Posts: 3518 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: January 24, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I appreciate that input. All through this thread, I feel that I've simply shared my experiences without heading for the shelter of "it's gotta be the 250". As they say "a poor craftsman blames his tools", and I don't think I've done that. (not my intention). I'm always open to the idea that it could be a training issue. In contrast to the 250, however, and a factoid that served/serves to push me to ask the group about their experience is this: the P290RS, with it's shorter sight-radius, shorter barrel, smaller grip is an item I can pick up immediately after putting the 250 down, and *drain it*. Not uncommon to have 3 or 4 through a jagged hole at the same distances, same lighting, same conditions that make me scratch my head about why I can't seem to guide the 250 similarly.

One thing the 290 gives me (forces me to do) is change my grip and positions my trigger finger to "move the trigger from the front to the back", opposed to having a fuller, "more-flesh-on" grip with the 250sub and 250compact, where I can pull the trigger. That observation - as recently as last night - makes me want to delve deeper into the "why", which was the driving force behind my post.

I'm always open to discovering what *I* can do, myself to improve; and I'd be really interested to hear what part of the training had to be changed or tweaked in the German Police situation you're referencing.

Great information and input, here! And always much appreciated.

String
 
Posts: 71 | Registered: May 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Interesting thread.... Here's my limited take..
I grew up shooting a revolver... then I inhereted a semi-auto pistol (Ruger P95)... when I first shot it I could not hit the side of a barn with me in it. It took time and a good bit of shooting to clear up that problem but the obvious issue was not the gun or the sights but me. Recently I've been shooting a few Sigs... primarily two P226s.... last Dec. taking a four day class I was using a brand new P226 M25 with the G10 grips.... on Day four all my shots were going left.... finally a 2nd party determined it was my grip and specifically my thumbs.....
One other observation: the silhouettes shown above... that is too big a target to be trying to sight in on.... either of those targets needs a smaller image to aim at... if nothing else when shooting at a target like that put your first round as center as possible and then aim at that hole for the next shots.
I'm going to have to go to the range... and check on this sight thing.... I actually own both a P290 and P250.
 
Posts: 492 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Stringdriver, super good post. You got a lot of great thoughts and feedback from a lot of smart guys. I am not one of them, but I am smart enough to read carefully when jljones writes somethng. Hang around a while and you will learn the same.

PS I have a 250 DAO sc and shoot it pretty well.


Risk the consequences of honesty...
 
Posts: 4280 | Location: DFW, TX | Registered: December 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by pblanc:

The OP wants to use a lower hold than the pistol requires. In other words, he wants the point of impact of his groups to come up. That requires a shorter front sight, which in SIG-speak means a higher number front sight.


Searched around, and I'd need a #10 front sight. Haven't had much luck finding one. Would it be ridiculous to alter the existing sight to the point a #10 would hit?

One would think, as someone mentioned, that these sights would throw every shooter that used them, for a loop. But... it would be the *same* loop, would it not?
 
Posts: 71 | Registered: May 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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