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posted
Greetings, all!
New around this board and wanted to pose a question or two on the "general" holds that you've experienced with your Sigs.

I find that I need to *completely* cover a target with the front posts on a subcompact 250 (especially with the subcompact) and a compact 250.

I find it totally unnatural too need to hold *that* high on a target and wanted to ask for feedback from this group if you find it the same way.

A 290RS doesn't seem to present the need the subcompact does.

I grew up with wheelers, so I have to force myself to fully cover the target. Invariably, it takes a mag or two to settle it down in my mind.

I claim no expertise level beyond that of regular practice. Distances from 7-15 yards.

I usually use Blazer Brass 115, and recently got a brick of S&B, that I first dipped into yesterday.

I am a HA-YOOOGE fan of Sig's DAO's. Very safe, without an external safety, and very smooth pulls.

Feedback appreciated! Happy to participate in a forum that, from every post I've read, thus far, carries the important attributes of respect-of-others and reasonable behavior when matters are discussed.

String
 
Posts: 71 | Registered: May 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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It's a sighting issue. I'm far removed from being a SIG basher, but they put zero effort into (and haven't in a long time) putting the correct sights on the correct pistol. It is almost as if they just throw on whatever they have laying around in pure laziness. The internet is full of many complaints about SIGs hammer fired pistols, and most of them aren't real and start with "I read on the internet...". This, however, is the thing that crawls all over me.

It is so bad that the customer service had to invent this whole "combat sight picture" thing to quell complaints about people's guns sighting in like shit. It is a far cry from the test targets of old, that is for sure.

Your answer is to change the sights to your preference. The P250 has a proprietary rear sight, so you'll have to change front sights to get the desired sight picture.

(Someone will be along shortly with a sight picture chart 1-3)


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 31929 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Being new to the "forum-world" of Sig, I'd have no past with what you mentioned. Walther provides (on some models), numbered front posts, which I think is effective.

I like the Sig DAO's enough to research/implement a solution that does not involve remembering which hold with which pistol.

It's a marked difference, and I truly A/B'd them yesterday. As a side note, I though the folks who were next to me shouting at each other and laughing like they were being auditioned for a laugh-track were part of why I had the differences. Ha. Or the 4 guys at one lane (three of which talked incessantly while almost standing behind me).

Not ignoring my own technique, or control, to be sure. I'm sure all of us have tried to figure matters out at the range when calling in the dogs, that particular night would save headaches and 4mm0. Wink

I need to bench-rest them and get a clearer idea, next outing.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
Posts: 71 | Registered: May 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
SIGSauer
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If you have a standard set up on your P250 and any other SIG, you should be able to aim at the target and hit it the same way as you are used to with your revolver. The upcoming sight picture concept is a home grown issue to make simple things more complicated. Dot alignment and outline alignment are not parallel but the aiming rays will meet at 15yds. It therefore does not matter if you cover the target with the front sight post or aim the traditional way.
 
Posts: 3518 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: January 24, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi. I don't clearly understand what you mean. If I hold like I hold a wheeler, at 6 o'clock, my POI will be 3" low, or so.

It's super unnatural and requires that I challenge the muscle memory I've developed.

Any clarity appreciated. Not disputing what you're saying, I just don't understand.
 
Posts: 71 | Registered: May 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is an ongoing frustration of mine. The only sight picture that has ever made sense to me is top of post on the spot you want to hit.

Combat sight picture, my ass....at close range in the dark, that makes sense, otherwise no.

Six o'clock hold? of what?? A 3" bullseye, 6", human chest??? Makes no sense except on a specific target in bullseye competition.
 
Posts: 7390 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by MNSIG:
This is an ongoing frustration of mine. The only sight picture that has ever made sense to me is top of post on the spot you want to hit.


Fair enough. And you're kind of making my question make sense. The challenge I'm having is I'm needing to *completely* cover (middle of front post at the spot I want to hit/ top of post well above the spot I want to hit). Meaning I cannot see the spot I want to hit. Especially with the subcompact.

Again, just curious of others' experiences.
 
Posts: 71 | Registered: May 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^^^^^^

Of course, with fixed elevation it's only going to hit in the "right" place with a particular load and range combination.
 
Posts: 7390 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I also prefer pistols that are sighted such that the point of impact corresponds to a dot that is bisected by the front sight post. But SIG is not the only maker that tends to use sights that require a "drive the dots" sight picture. All of my four Berettas are set up the same way.

If you want to raise your point of impact relative to the point of aim, you need a shorter front sight post. As jljones said, the proprietary rear sight on the P250 does not allow the option of installing a lower rear sight, but the front sight is dovetailed and can be swapped. This article tells you more than you may want to know about SIG sights:

http://www.realgunreviews.com/...ights-sight-numbers/

Your front sight should have a little number on the left side of the horizontal part of the top of the dovetail block. It is small and you might need a magnifying glass to see it clearly. The way SIG's numbering system works, sights with a higher number will raise the point of impact and those with a lower number will lower it. So for front sights a higher number actually means a shorter sight. You want a shorter front sight post, so you will want a higher number. So if your front sight is a number 6, you could go with a number 7, 8, 9, or 10 front. If you have a number 8, you could swap for a 8 or 10.

The article says that each number change on the front sight changes the point of impact by one inch at 25 yards. But the alteration in POI is going to depend on the sight radius. A pistol with a rather short sight radius like the P250SC will see a greater change in POI than a P226, for example.

For what it is worth, my SIG P250 9 mm subcompact has a number 8 front sight. Unlike my other SIG pistols, there is no number on the rear sight. I assume there was only one height for the proprietary rear sight of the P250.
 
Posts: 356 | Registered: March 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by pblanc:If you want to raise your point of impact relative to the point of aim, you need a taller front sight post.


I believe a taller front post will LOWER the POI as it will force you to depress the muzzle further.
 
Posts: 7390 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
addicted to trailing-throttle oversteer
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The "combat" sight is what SIG NH uses. Annoying, since I'm used to this, assuming I'm aim at the middle of that circle:



Which is what Glock and oh-so many others use to align their sights. I have older SIGs that use the same sight alignment, but anything built by SIG NH...the front dot is covering the target. That said, I also have a couple of HKs that are the same. Certainly don't prefer it, let alone like it, but I've adjusted as needed.

But it WOULD be nice if the tritium sight makers offered guidance and a variety of differing heights to their sights so I could get back to what I prefer.
 
Posts: 8558 | Location: Drippin' wet | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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SIGS answer is always COMBAT SIGHT PICTURE!!!!!!!!!!!m

Change them to something that works for you.
 
Posts: 39581 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by MNSIG:
quote:
Originally posted by pblanc:If you want to raise your point of impact relative to the point of aim, you need a taller front sight post.


I believe a taller front post will LOWER the POI as it will force you to depress the muzzle further.


Yes, you are quite right and I fixed that. Thought one thing and typed the opposite. I always get a bit confused with SIG sights since higher number front sights denote shorter sight posts.
 
Posts: 356 | Registered: March 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by pblanc:
For what it is worth, my SIG P250 9 mm subcompact has a number 8 front sight. Unlike my other SIG pistols, there is no number on the rear sight. I assume there was only one height for the proprietary rear sight of the P250.


I don't know whether it refers to height or something else, but all P250 rear sights I have seen have a letter marking above the firing pin hole. Below are photos of one of my P250s marked "L" and another marked "M" from a CDNN ad.

 
Posts: 558 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: March 25, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Graphics help me to explain what I'm trying to say. I created an image but cannot upload to a photo album. I don't have permission on the forum yet.

So imagine a can of 3 tennis balls. The top of the can is the top my front post, and I'm aiming for the center of the topmost ball. That's how I have to hold the 250's.

The Walther/Colt Government Rail. 22LR is the only other I have that requires the post to completely cover the intended POI.

If that's a ridiculous explanation, my apologies...it's the best I can do without an image to convey my point.

Is that how the rest of you point your Sigs?
 
Posts: 71 | Registered: May 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for that image.
I'm used to the center image and find that I need to hold even higher than the third.

As I said, I need to benchrest it on my next outing.

I'm supposing Sig's are supposed to be represented in the far right image?
 
Posts: 71 | Registered: May 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
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You’re missing the point. SIGs aren’t “represented” by any of those. They throw whatever sights they have laying around, and then when the gun hits 2 inches high or 2 inches low, CS quotes “combat sight picture” as the cure.

I recently purchased a new P229. At 10 yards the gun hit about 2 inches high. I replaced the sights with the proper ones, and the bullet goes where the tip of the font sight is.

Sight issues on SIGs are not uncommon. But, it is an easy fix.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 31929 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Stringdriver, you need a taller front sight.
 
Posts: 22070 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Sight issues on SIGs are not uncommon. But, it is an easy fix.


Thanks, all. I think I needed to ask the question a little differently... perhaps: "are sight issues common with Sigs?"

A great bunch of replies. I appreciate all of the input.

String
 
Posts: 71 | Registered: May 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
Stringdriver, you need a taller front sight.


The OP wants to use a lower hold than the pistol requires. In other words, he wants the point of impact of his groups to come up. That requires a shorter front sight, which in SIG-speak means a higher number front sight.
 
Posts: 356 | Registered: March 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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