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Carry guns: Red dot? Light? both? Login/Join 
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posted
I am curious how many folks who actually carry on a regular basis, how they choose to equip their guns. It seems as though all the hip trainers are using lights and optics, but I wonder how that relates to real world usage by the average armed civilian, and how do you carry it? And if not, are you planning to move that direction?

Question:
Do you have a light and or red dot on your regular carry gun? And if not, do you plan to in the future?

Choices:
No - I use standard sights and a hand-held light
Yes - I use both a red dot and a rail mounted light
Yes - I use a rail mounted light but no red dot
Yes - I use a red dot but not a rail mounted light
No - but I plan on adding a red dot
No - but I plan on adding a rail mounted light
No - but I plan on adding both

 


"Living among the enemy behind the Tofu Curtain"
 
Posts: 2017 | Location: California, USA | Registered: January 21, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
A Grateful American
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I carry everyday, everywhere unless prohibited by law (like on base...) for more than a dozen years.

P245, spare mag, and fixed blade karambit.

I figure if it ever comes to it, I won't be wasting any time fiddle fucking around with anything that is above gross motor skill.

And I hope it never comes to it.

Home guns have lights, and extra SureFire handhelds lying around in the same places.

(I am a creature of habits sorta OCD, and double check stuff is always where I expect it to be.)




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" I could explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
 
Posts: 39825 | Location: fl | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
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I carry with a WML and a small handheld.
At work I carry with a WML and a small handheld. Figured I’d keep it similar off duty.

Next year we are possibly equipping all officers with the RMR so I will probably do the same to my off duty gun.



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 6391 | Location: Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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CT Lasergrips, irons (HI Viz or Tritium), handheld white light.

Red Dots on a handgun are a crutch; better to spend the $$$ on training an practice. (wink, wink, smileyface, smileyface, Nomex longjohns on under my cover garments. )


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Posts: 10948 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I prefer less bulk in a carry gun and keeping it simple. My eyes are not not getting any better, so in the future I may give optics another try.
My HD pistol does has WML on it. Bulk is not an issue on a night stand.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 9500 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I had my P365's slide milled for a RMSc and prefer to carry it that way. At night, I like to have a WML but prefer to not have a light during the day. I don't go out often at night and it is kind of a pain to put the Foxtrot365 on and take it off. I have a second grip module that I mounted the Foxtrot on and change out the FCU when needed.


____________________________________________________________________________________
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
If you beat your swords into plowshares, you will become farmers for those who didn't!
Political Correctness is fascism pretending to be Manners-George Carlin
 
Posts: 1957 | Location: Central Va. | Registered: September 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Red Dots on a handgun are a crutch

I don't get if that's a troll, or something else.
I know that for me personally it makes a big difference. And I would note that in the competitive shooting I do I have never seen an iron sighted gun beat the optic guys in any course of fire. And the longer the COF the worse it is, and the lower the light the worse it is.
I'd consider a laser a crutch, but that's just me without any experience...


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 8057 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
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I usually carry a Gen5 G19 with Trijicon HD night sights. No light, no optic. I have a RMR 19 that I spend a lot of time training on, and will make the jump as soon as my work allows it.

I always carry a Surefire Stilletto with me, and only have a WML on my G17 that I have set up on a gunbelt. If I am going to bad places, I take a rifle with a light mounted on it. And usually, I'll put on a gun belt with a G17 with a X300 attached.




www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 33283 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Still finding my way
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quote:
And I would note that in the competitive shooting I do I have never seen an iron sighted gun beat the optic guys in any course of fire. And the longer the COF the worse it is, and the lower the light the worse it is.


Hardware and tactics used in competition matches don't translate over to concealed carry very well.
Sure, a Shadow 2 with and SRO is going to be faster than one with irons while shooting a stage but only after the dot is found and then the speed only comes while engaging lots of targets without looking outside of the little window.
In a self defense scenario a dot will take longer to get on target when compared to irons. That extra fraction of a second spent looking for your dot may be the difference between getting a shot off or just getting shot.
 
Posts: 8452 | Registered: January 04, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryanp225:
quote:
And I would note that in the competitive shooting I do I have never seen an iron sighted gun beat the optic guys in any course of fire. And the longer the COF the worse it is, and the lower the light the worse it is.


Hardware and tactics used in competition matches don't translate over to concealed carry very well.
Sure, a Shadow 2 with and SRO is going to be faster than one with irons while shooting a stage but only after the dot is found and then the speed only comes while engaging lots of targets without looking outside of the little window.
In a self defense scenario a dot will take longer to get on target when compared to irons. That extra fraction of a second spent looking for your dot may be the difference between getting a shot off or just getting shot.


I have to disagree. If a shooter has to "spend time looking for your dot" then they have a really crappy presentation. The other thing is if your sights are that far off on the draw that you have to look for the dot, they are that far off on the draw with iron sights. The two are directly linked. And you'll have to spend time fixing the sights either way. So the extra fraction of a second spent looking for the dot isn't going to matter because it isn't the dots fault.




www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 33283 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
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quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I carry everyday, everywhere unless prohibited by law (like on base...) for more than a dozen years.

P245, spare mag, and fixed blade karambit.

...

Home guns have lights, and extra SureFire handhelds lying around in the same places.

This is pretty much where I am, save the karambit, and I carry a variety of different pistols, depending upon various factors.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
The dominant media is no more "mainstream" than leftists are liberals.
 
Posts: 16620 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryanp225:
In a self defense scenario a dot will take longer to get on target when compared to irons. That extra fraction of a second spent looking for your dot may be the difference between getting a shot off or just getting shot.


It depends on how and how much you practice. When I first put on my RMSc, I had a hard time drawing with the dot being on target. After seeing where my dot was compared to where it should be, I started to adjust my grip. Once I found how I needed to grip the pistol, I concentrated on having that feel while drawing. Once I had that pretty much down, I started working on drawing more quickly, while keeping the correct grip.

When I was drawing and on target about 90% of the time, I took a two day tactical/ defensive pistol class. There were gamers in the class with their competition pistols, along with average shooters. Except for me, all the students were shooting compact or full size pistols, I was using my P365/ RMSc. I was keeping up with everyone, time and score wise, but the gamers. If I had to use my iron sights alone, I would have been slower and less accurate because I can't focus well on the front sight... older eyes.


____________________________________________________________________________________
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
If you beat your swords into plowshares, you will become farmers for those who didn't!
Political Correctness is fascism pretending to be Manners-George Carlin
 
Posts: 1957 | Location: Central Va. | Registered: September 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Nick:

Question:
Do you have a light and or red dot on your regular carry gun?



It is not a binary choice. I carry irons only G48, pretty much sight-less J frame if can call those things on it sights, or RMRd G19 depending on my attire and concealment requirements.
Since I carry AIWB, I never carry with a WML. I even try my best not to patronize holster makers who offer AIWB WML enabled holsters.


quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
And I would note that in the competitive shooting I do I have never seen an iron sighted gun beat the optic guys in any course of fire. And the longer the COF the worse it is, and the lower the light the worse it is.



Below is a result of hi-cap Nationals I had a pleasure shooting a month or so ago. Arguably, the strongest current field in Limited and Carry optics. Pretty considerable number of iron sighted guys beat a pretty considerable number of optic guys. Even if you took a major PF out of consideration, that would still be the case. I am optic guy but I see irons dudes beat on optics dudes, even Open, pretty regularly. It is a function of talent, not sighting system.

https://practiscore.com/results/new/93422
 
Posts: 331 | Registered: April 03, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think depending on a battery in a chaotic situation where your life is on the line is pretty much asking for a bad outcome....

I don't think a light should ever be on a gun... yes, I know many of you disagree... if you need a light then hold it in your support hand. I have a red dot on my Sig p320 and it is great for practice and target shooting but I would never rely on it for defense.... I do have a laser on my carry gun as well as on a gun by the door but both are secondary to the iron sights.
 
Posts: 1110 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
In a self defense scenario a dot will take longer to get on target when compared to irons.

That has not been my experience nor what I see in my local matches. We record time to first shot and the optic guys win that normally.
quote:
Even if you took a major PF out of consideration, that would still be the case

Help me understand that results posting. I see every single person scoring minor to be in carry optics. I tried to, but couldn't figure out how much of the scoring advantage is from major power factor not the choice of sights.
I fully understand that at the top level of competition one gets to tune their equipment and choice of class to one standard intended to win. Since major rewards less accuracy than minor I'm not exactly sure it conflicts with my point. But in my local matches there are not USPSA classes and results are not divided. Bring what you want. Average people. And the optics people always win.
FWIW


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 8057 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I carry with wml and a handheld light. Been carrying with one wml or another for about a decade and the newer lights really are getting compact enough to mount on pocket/ deep carry guns too. I like being able to further identify if needed and when shooting, the gun stays flatter. No downside to it for me. Ymmv

No red dots yet. At pistol ranges, I find irons accurate enough and like knowing that they are difficult to impossible to break.
 
Posts: 412 | Registered: March 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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quote:
Originally posted by Chowser:
I carry with a WML and a small handheld.
At work I carry with a WML and a small handheld. Figured I’d keep it similar off duty.


Same here.
 
Posts: 23715 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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oojima in this house!
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quote:
Originally posted by RichardC:
CT Lasergrips, irons (HI Viz or Tritium), handheld white light.

Red Dots on a handgun are a crutch; better to spend the $$$ on training an practice. (wink, wink, smileyface, smileyface, Nomex longjohns on under my cover garments. )


My corrective lenses basically make my pistol sights a blob. If by crutch means actually being able to see your sighting system and your target at the same time, then yeah it’s crutch.


-----------------------------------------------------------
TCB all the time...
 
Posts: 6334 | Location: Cantonment/Perdido Key, Florida | Registered: September 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:

Help me understand that results posting. I see every single person scoring minor to be in carry optics. I tried to, but couldn't figure out how much of the scoring advantage is from major power factor not the choice of sights.


....But in my local matches there are not USPSA classes and results are not divided. Bring what you want. Average people. And the optics people always win.
FWIW


A quick and dirty way is to look at competitors's raw times and number of A zone hits. Assuming relatively similar times, you can deduce if match placement was determined by accuracy or power factor determined scoring. Same can be done by looking at times and % points scored by a competitor. If we did that and prioritized accuracy, they'll be some reshuffling of placement but no, it will not universally drop irons guys below the dot guys.

I can't comment on data derived from results of matches where are no USPSA classes. I am not certain what those are, IDPA, outlaw matches? Locally the best talent shoots USPSA which is actually the reason why I moved to that sport. Last weekend match there were four iron sighted guns before the first slide mounted optic gun, and for at least two of them, if not three, the power factor wouldn't have mattered.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: YVK,
 
Posts: 331 | Registered: April 03, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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RMR on a Glock is more accurate out further and in darkness way better. Doesn't add much weight or bulk on a Glock. Makes a head shot easy.


U.S. Army 11F4P Vietnam 69-70 NRA Life Member
 
Posts: 771 | Registered: June 11, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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