SIGforum
The 10mm SIG 220ST Project

This topic can be found at:
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/324107199

July 22, 2008, 10:02 PM
Anarion
The 10mm SIG 220ST Project
quote:
Originally posted by Flork:
It's a bit late now, but let me talk to my supplier and see what kind of killer deal I can get on High Quality reloads.

Anybody interested?

Scott


Well, I figure the guys at my range are liable to comp me the first 200 rounds (provided they're allowed to shoot too Big Grin) But after that, I'm going to be needing to buy my own....so count me in for a somewhere between 1/2 and a full case of 10mm goodness if you can get something together. Smile


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On the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other days and other fields will bear the fruits of victory.
Gen. Douglas MacArthur
July 22, 2008, 11:05 PM
Il Cattivo
quote:
Originally posted by Flork:
It's a bit late now, but let me talk to my supplier and see what kind of killer deal I can get on High Quality reloads.

Anybody interested?

Scott


Sounds great, I'm in.
July 23, 2008, 04:55 PM
drvink
I am interested. Depending on price, maybe 500 rounds.
August 13, 2008, 12:16 AM
Anarion
Scott/Bruce:

Is it too early to ask for another update?
The suspense is killing me...makes me feel like a 5 year old on X-mas eve. Big Grin


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On the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other days and other fields will bear the fruits of victory.
Gen. Douglas MacArthur
August 20, 2008, 08:14 PM
drvink
......chirp.......chirp........
August 21, 2008, 12:50 AM
Grayguns
Howdy! An update is in order for sure. What a complex and engaging challenge this has been! It's been a great learning experience for us here at Grayguns, an experience that has elevated Flork and Torie to new levels of precision skills, and which has taught me once again just how long it takes to solve problems and invent cool new stuff from thin air while good clients and friends wait patiently for the results.

Much of what we're developing in the way of new parts and modifications have been spurred by the 10mm project. It's truly taken on a life of it's own. This effort has left us broke in the short term but will pay big dividends over time in the form of better techniques, trick new parts, a line of magazines and stronger services. We owe all of you so much for giving us this opportunity to leap forward on the back of this project, challenging as it's been.

All machine, action and beavertail work is finished on all of your pistols, save for two magwell jobs and a few slide mass insert installations on newer light slides. We're finishing out the other minor, remaining slide work this week. I'm doing all the critical barrel fits (each barrel starts out oversized and is hard-fitted individually by me, then serialized) prior to shipping most of these sets off to our metal finishing vendor for Super Black treatment. (Fortunately, they've been running pretty fast on turnaround lately, unlike our excellent but sloow nickel vendor.)

Otherwise, we have only two magwell jobs to finish. After testing and tweaks, a whole run of proper mags are coming from Metalform right now. We got awesome help from SIG design engineer Ethan Lessard on a trick recoil spring design (suited to a garage door) and these are on the way. Ethan has helped us work out a number of details on this project that have made all the difference.

It's going exceedingly well now and we'll be delivering the next four or five complete pistols presently.

We've learned so much from the first three pistols, and we've put that experience directly into the remaining guns to make them better. This has demanded some reworks as we've fine-tuned our suite of mods and tweaks.

For example, we found that the higher initial slide velocity of these 10mm's was causing some excess coining of the hammer cam below the firing pin strike plate. A simple recontouring and, counter-intuitively, a lighter mainspring solved this issue.

We're also reducing barrel mass slightly to reduce impact forces with the locking insert, and taking exquisite care in fitting to ensure correct clearances with maximum locking area.

I can say these pistols are ending up much different than I could have envisioned a couple years ago when we first got tired of the "God will kill a kitten" crowd and decided to, well, shut you up. Big Grin

Indeed, these 10's are so much more well adapted to this purpose, substantially built, reliable and more practically useful than I imagined. I'm really very appreciative for everyone's willingness to give us the space we needed to test the crap out of our prototypes, get springs & mags made and dope out everything to my satisfaction.

Thank you, thank you all!

-Bruce
541-763-3840




Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms: SIG SAUER

Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistolsmithing and high-grade components.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 888.585.4729
August 21, 2008, 12:57 AM
tanksoldier
quote:
Originally posted by Grayguns:
I can say these pistols are ending up much different than I could have envisioned a couple years ago when we first got tired of the "God will kill a kitten" crowd and decided to, well, shut you up. Big Grin


It's still not a factory Sig 10mm. (Meow! "SPLAT!")

I have to say that I think this project is just an outstanding idea and clearly demonstrates that American Inventiveness and Ingenuity are alive and well... as is the American marketing instinct to find a niche and fill it. Smile



"I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight."
GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
August 21, 2008, 07:29 AM
Anarion
Appreciate you taking the time to respond, Bruce...It's been interesting to follow yours/Flork's posts during this process. Big Grin


==============================
On the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other days and other fields will bear the fruits of victory.
Gen. Douglas MacArthur
August 21, 2008, 09:11 AM
Gary1911A1
quote:
Originally posted by Anarion:
Appreciate you taking the time to respond, Bruce...It's been interesting to follow yours/Flork's posts during this process. Big Grin


Yes, thanks for the update. My Sig220ST is still ready to ship off to you when you contact me. I'm a little impatient, but I'm sure you understand.
August 21, 2008, 10:29 AM
Ordnance Outsell
Bruce, great report and testimony to yours, Flork's, etc. inquisitive, inventive minds to look for improved solutions "midstream" in this project!

As an aside, but certainly related to 220's is your take on "internal" vs "external" extractor? Very few customers have ever reported issues with "internal" to us; but have been a few. Of course, Sig did decide to change design?

For those of you who've been waiting patiently... or otherwise, Christmas is just around the corner! LOL


www.OrdnanceOutsellers.com
jerry@OrdnanceOutsellers.com

770-977-0662
August 21, 2008, 12:04 PM
drvink
Thanks Bruce!
August 21, 2008, 01:23 PM
signoir
Thanks, Bruce. There's nothing like a few engineering details to give me the warm and fuzzies. Hopefully, your new found knowledge will garner you more customers and work and you'll be able to recover your R&D costs quickly.


"When I held that gun in my hand, I felt a surge of power...like God must feel... when he's holding a gun!" H. Simpson.
August 21, 2008, 02:35 PM
WaterburyBob
Thanks for the update, Bruce. It sounds like the wait will be worth it.



"If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards
August 22, 2008, 01:44 PM
Flork
How's this for an update?




The parts went out to the Nickel plater over 3 months ago and finally arrived back in our shop.

As soon as the new mags come in and I test it, the gun will be ready to ship.


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Scott @ Apex
-------------------------------------------
"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."
Leonard Novak - "Thee Gambler" (SASS)
------------------------------------------------

My guides to Sig Lubrication: http://www.apextactical.com/bl...-sauer-pistol-rails/

http://www.apextactical.com/bl...nternal-lubrication/
August 22, 2008, 01:53 PM
parabellum
That's a gorgeous handgun.
August 22, 2008, 02:27 PM
KevinCW
That is fantastic.


Looks good.





Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up."
August 22, 2008, 02:39 PM
Ordnance Outsell
Dayum, that is freaking fantastic! Would it be legal to marry it?


www.OrdnanceOutsellers.com
jerry@OrdnanceOutsellers.com

770-977-0662
August 22, 2008, 02:45 PM
Ordnance Outsell
From the looks of it, might have nickel/silver controls on left side? Like Equinox where slide came from? Possily Platinum Elite?


www.OrdnanceOutsellers.com
jerry@OrdnanceOutsellers.com

770-977-0662
August 22, 2008, 02:58 PM
Flork
quote:
Originally posted by Ordnance Outsell:
Dayum, that is freaking fantastic! Would it be legal to marry it?


She's almost 18....give it a few months.....ROFL


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-------------------------------------------
Scott @ Apex
-------------------------------------------
"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."
Leonard Novak - "Thee Gambler" (SASS)
------------------------------------------------

My guides to Sig Lubrication: http://www.apextactical.com/bl...-sauer-pistol-rails/

http://www.apextactical.com/bl...nternal-lubrication/
August 22, 2008, 02:59 PM
Flork
quote:
Originally posted by Ordnance Outsell:
From the looks of it, might have nickel/silver controls on left side? Like Equinox where slide came from? Possily Platinum Elite?


All of the controls are nickeled.

The slide is a standard slide that we polished up and sent off for Super Black then flat polished the sides on. You like?


------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Scott @ Apex
-------------------------------------------
"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."
Leonard Novak - "Thee Gambler" (SASS)
------------------------------------------------

My guides to Sig Lubrication: http://www.apextactical.com/bl...-sauer-pistol-rails/

http://www.apextactical.com/bl...nternal-lubrication/