quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:

quote:

Originally posted by AaronP220R:
Those look a lot like 9-mm 1911 magazines. Custom made just for your application???

These look like Metalform 10mm SIG mags to me, but what the hell do I know?


-Bruce

And what did I do to piss you off? Seems like a shitty thing to say. I was simply inquiring if you had changed a 1911 magazine or designed something else...

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
Well, yes, but the point is to be able to shoot it, no? And the caliber has developed a reputation for accelerated wear in other pistols used with the heavier loads. Bruce has made it clear the conversion is primarily for use with midrange loads, but sooner or later (like years down the road) the heavier loads will probably add up, even at reasonable rates of use.

I'm sure that's true. 10mm is what it is. It's nature is to be hard on guns, which is why we've taken pains in our R&D to make sure we're building as durable a pistol as we can.

We do guarantee our work for life, with a few common-sense caveats. With an early start, I've been in the biz for about 35 years and am only 52 years old. Flork is 25. I honestly suspect you don't have too much to worry about from that standpoint. We aren't going anywhere.

Tang's point about values is flattering, and at the risk of seeming self-serving, it's been true of past custom makers and for my own earlier work. As an example, the guns I helped build when I worked for Devel in the early 80's are hot collectibles these days. I wish I could afford one. Nor can I afford the high-end, cased 5" Commercial Colt I built in 1996 which recently resold for over $5000.

Now, as for these 10mm's, I can tell you that the mags are unique, made specifically for us by Metalform. However, these pistols will still accept stock SIG 220 mags and these actually work pretty well as 10mm's...just not perfectly enough for our purposes.

The same thing is true of the extractor. Ironically, the stock SP-style SIG extractor has worked well in our 10mm's. To prove this, we have run over 1000 rounds of 200 gr. Blazer 10mm loads through prototype 2 with a stock 220 extractor without any failures. Even though we originally got into the extractor business to optimize reliability for this project, our new design will be more relevant to .45's.

I hope this answers your concerns and look forward to your response. Thanks!

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by AaronP220R:

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:

quote:

Originally posted by AaronP220R:
Those look a lot like 9-mm 1911 magazines. Custom made just for your application???

These look like Metalform 10mm SIG mags to me, but what the hell do I know?


-Bruce

And what did I do to piss you off? Seems like a shitty thing to say. I was simply inquiring if you had changed a 1911 magazine or designed something else...

Aaron, I'll make you a deal: you lay off the caffiene and I'll choose my words more carefully around you until you get your sense of humour back. I was just tweaking you. You know me well enough to know I'd never insult you or anyone else for that matter.

Yes, as stated previously we've been working with Metalform to make a line of purpose-built P220 mags. I'm surpised you didn't know this?Our initial testing was done with adapted 1911 10mm mags.

-Bruce

Yeah, I've been a horses ass lately. As you know it's not like me either. But as I will be unemployed next Tuesday my stress level is beyond maximum and i vent in odd places. I'm sorry for calling you out. I should have known better of you of all people. Please forgive me.

-Aaron

Let me add a few pics to the 10mm post..

Damn i like that mag well! Excellent work GGI!

I don't see anything to credit GGI on the gun in the pictures. Maybe they need to have someone take, say, Nills grips, and get the GGi logo on them (maybe with a picture of a kitten?) to complete the work. But other than that, gorgeous, and hey Scott, that's what I want mine to look like!
BTW, what are the chances of modifying Crimson Trace P220 grips to fit the magwell?

You know at first I was just going to get the basic conversion. Now thanks to these pictures I will likely have to get two done. One basic and another full custom. Now to get another 220ST. OK, where can I get another 220St and could I have it sent directly to Gray Guns if that is OK with you Bruce?

I believe we're going to send them out to have our logo added to them via Laser Engraving. For those customers who don't want that addition, we'll hold off.

We haven't tried the CT grips, but I'd be happy to take a look at them if you want to send them along.

So should I add the Super Black Graygunite to your invoice?

Scott

quote:

Originally posted by Flork:
I believe we're going to send them out to have our logo added to them via Laser Engraving. For those customers who don't want that addition, we'll hold off.

We haven't tried the CT grips, but I'd be happy to take a look at them if you want to send them along.

So should I add the Super Black Graygunite to your invoice?

Scott

Absolutely! And of course the laser engraving as well. I don't have CT grips at the moment, but let me chew on it a day, and have a set delivered if I decide to do that.

Best Regards, George

George,

Just remember, I can't guarantee that I'll be able to make them work.

Scott

Yeah, that had occurred to me, that is why I am chewing on it. Thanks!

Scott, do have an updated time estimate for the completion of the first batch?

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:
We do guarantee our work for life, with a few common-sense caveats. We aren't going anywhere.

I don't doubt y'alls' competence, staying power or commitment to back what you build. Jimmy Newman had asked a reasonable question, and I didn't think "at worst, it'll be a valuable collectible" was a fair response. Call it sympathy for a neighbor on the learning curve from someone who looks forward to shooting a GGI 10mm a lot.

quote:

Originally posted by herbie220:
Will this be strictly for the internal extractors, or will the conversion also work on the new external extractors. I am in on the second run of guns, and I was just curious. Herbie

I do not see why the newer external extractor version won't also be suitable, all else being equal. Good question, thank you!

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Gary1911A1:
You know at first I was just going to get the basic conversion. Now thanks to these pictures I will likely have to get two done. One basic and another full custom. Now to get another 220ST. OK, where can I get another 220St and could I have it sent directly to Gray Guns if that is OK with you Bruce?

Thank you! As long as you have purchased the basic stock pistol elsewhere, you can have it shipped to us for this work. Need a 220ST or Stainless Elite? Ordnance Outsellers and Top Gun Supply are both big faves with the Forum membership and friends of ours whom we can endorse with great enthusiasm.

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:
We do guarantee our work for life, with a few common-sense caveats. We aren't going anywhere.

I don't doubt y'alls' competence, staying power or commitment to back what you build. Jimmy Newman had asked a reasonable question, and I didn't think "at worst, it'll be a valuable collectible" was a fair response. Call it sympathy for a neighbor on the learning curve from someone who looks forward to shooting a GGI 10mm a lot.

I'm not sure which one of us made that quote, but I guess it paraphrases 9mmepiphany's valid if somewhat speculative comments about future values. He was only addressing one aspect of this project when he responded to Jimmy Newman's concerns about parts and support down the line.

In any event I agree that our customers should have every confidence in us and our work apart from concerns about things like collectibility. We are not trying to build expensive toys, but rather we are taking the effort and time to build practically useful pistols that serve a purpose.

I hope my posts have been clear. I encourage y'all to read what Flork and I have written here about this project and take our words as the definitive word.

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy Newman:
I may have missed it somewhere in this thread (I didn't make it through the whole 27 pages), but I have a few questions about the conversion if you folks wouldn't mind answering.

I would love to have a 10mm P220ST, but have some concerns based on the level of custom work. If, 15 years down the line, you guys have moved on from the 10mm conversion project, how hard would it be to get someone to make replacements for the custom parts like the extractor, magazines, slide catch lever and mag release?

Thanks,
Jimmy

To clarify further, the mag release and slide catch lever are stock P220ST parts. The lever is only slightly adpated to this caliber and poses no serious interchange issues down the road.

It's really all a non-issue, but I understand the concern.

Many custom 1911's are far less easily supported than our 10mm P220's will be; we've thought this through to find methods of conversion and upgrades which will still permit reverse-installation and use of stock or lightly adapted components if desired. I'd like to imagine that this forethought has also allowed us to build them for less than a King's ransom.

Thanks for asking!

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:
Scott, do have an updated time estimate for the completion of the first batch?

I'll swing at that one. As we are now delivering the first three, I'd say we are presently engaged in delivery of the first batch in series. Everything is tested, in hand and ready, so we'll continue to complete each remaining pistol in order as the slides and frame sets come back from treatment and finishing.

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Flork:
I believe we're going to send them out to have our logo added to them via Laser Engraving. For those customers who don't want that addition, we'll hold off.

I'll take a GGI logo on my conversion.