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new Springfield Armory Hellcat 11+1 pistol, competition for P365 Login/Join 
Member
Picture of ruger357
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by ruger357:
Not a big fan of springfield but if this gun works better than a 365, I might consider it.

Better? What's the problem with the P365 currently?


I understand that the current production 365s are ok but I still don't trust it yet,

I did hear from an insider that the Springfield has been very reliable in testing so far.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ruger357,


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Roll Tide!

Glock Certified Armorer
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Posts: 6774 | Location: Hoover, AL | Registered: November 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
posted Hide Post
The issue is the problems that creep into the production runs. There are issues that can happen to 1 in 500 guns that won't show up in low volume pre-production testing. I think this is what bit SIG,

quote:
Originally posted by ruger357:
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by ruger357:
Not a big fan of springfield but if this gun works better than a 365, I might consider it.

Better? What's the problem with the P365 currently?


I understand that the current production 365s are ok but I still don't trust it yet,

I did near from an insider that the Springfield has been very reliable in testing so far.
 
Posts: 19265 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted Hide Post
I’m keeping a close eye on Lipsey’s and RSR’s websites. I think I’ll bite once some come in. I like the idea of the optic ready model.


"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 5627 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of 10-7 leo
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fpuhan:
The P365 appeals to me, but I haven't had a chance to shoot one, yet.


Depending on where you are in VA, I might be able to remedy that.


____________________________________________________________________________________
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
If you beat your swords into plowshares, you will become farmers for those who didn't!
Political Correctness is fascism pretending to be Manners-George Carlin
 
Posts: 1946 | Location: Central Va. | Registered: September 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by EasyFire:
Wonder if there will be a patent infringement issue?


With what patent?




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 48318 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ruger357:
I understand that the current production 365s are ok but I still don't trust it yet,

I did near from an insider that the Springfield has been very reliable in testing so far.
So, let's see- you're ready to accept this nifty new and untried pistol over one of the hottest selling pocket pistols of the last decade which is in the hands of thousands upon thousand of shooters, and all because you heard from a "Springfield insider" that their new and untried pistol is "very reliable in testing so far".

Would you care to explain the logic of this to me? I just don't get this. You can find page after page of real-world testing and performance reviews of the P365, but you're ready to go with the neato new kid on the block that you've never even handled, much less shot, because it might turn out to be "better". Just how exactly would you make this comparison? How long do you think this new pistol might have to be out before the amount of information available about it is comparable to the information currently available about real-world testing of the P365?
 
Posts: 88862 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Blackwater
posted Hide Post
Neat gun for size, but I prefer guns with a full grip for small hands. My G43x has been stellar. I didn't like the G43.

I just got done with dirty/dusty Concealed Carry course at Gunsite with a brand new P365 XL that had maybe 200 round through it before the class and it did amazing. I must admit surprised me a little. It was perfect and the right size for me.


Joe

Oath Keeper
 
Posts: 2260 | Location: Az | Registered: October 28, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
posted Hide Post
SIG talked about having a patent on the design of the P365 magazine. As I said above, I've never actually seen a link to the actual patent /
application.

Edit: Might have found it.

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi...84&RS=DN/20190195584

quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by EasyFire:
Wonder if there will be a patent infringement issue?


With what patent?
 
Posts: 19265 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
SIG talked about having a patent on the design of the P365 magazine. As I said above, I've never actually seen a link to the actual patent /
application.

Edit: Might have found it.

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi...84&RS=DN/20190195584

quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by EasyFire:
Wonder if there will be a patent infringement issue?


With what patent?


Thanks.

I have no idea whether Springfield's magazine infringes, but if it does, SIG will take action.

And thank god I am not a patent lawyer. That stuff is fairly arcane.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 48318 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
posted Hide Post
In one of the video I watched about the Hellcat, the Youtuber doing the review said something about Springfield having a patent on it's magazine. Of course nothing in Springfield's own material says anything about this. The the Youtuber may be talking out of his ass on this subject.

quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
SIG talked about having a patent on the design of the P365 magazine. As I said above, I've never actually seen a link to the actual patent /
application.

Edit: Might have found it.

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi...84&RS=DN/20190195584

quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by EasyFire:
Wonder if there will be a patent infringement issue?


With what patent?


Thanks.

I have no idea whether Springfield's magazine infringes, but if it does, SIG will take action.

And thank god I am not a patent lawyer. That stuff is fairly arcane.
 
Posts: 19265 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Res ipsa loquitur
Picture of BB61
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
In one of the video I watched about the Hellcat, the Youtuber doing the review said something about Springfield having a patent on it's magazine. Of course nothing in Springfield's own material says anything about this. The the Youtuber may be talking out of his ass on this subject.

quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
SIG talked about having a patent on the design of the P365 magazine. As I said above, I've never actually seen a link to the actual patent /
application.

Edit: Might have found it.

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi...84&RS=DN/20190195584

quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by EasyFire:
Wonder if there will be a patent infringement issue?


With what patent?


Thanks.

I have no idea whether Springfield's magazine infringes, but if it does, SIG will take action.

And thank god I am not a patent lawyer. That stuff is fairly arcane.


As I posted earlier, in SAI's own release video they claim they have a patent on the mag. I think it is at the 1.12 mark.


__________________________

 
Posts: 10793 | Registered: October 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
I keep wanting to buy a 365, but, I'm having a hard time justifying it.
It's a little larger than my Kimber Solo, but, smaller than my M7P compact.
Now, Springfield comes along with the Hellcat.
I've never warmed up to Springers, but, for a production gun, every Sig I've ever shot has been accurate.
 
Posts: 152 | Location: WI | Registered: October 13, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by ruger357:
I understand that the current production 365s are ok but I still don't trust it yet,

I did near from an insider that the Springfield has been very reliable in testing so far.
So, let's see- you're ready to accept this nifty new and untried pistol over one of the hottest selling pocket pistols of the last decade which is in the hands of thousands upon thousand of shooters, and all because you heard from a "Springfield insider" that their new and untried pistol is "very reliable in testing so far".

Would you care to explain the logic of this to me? I just don't get this. You can find page after page of real-world testing and performance reviews of the P365, but you're ready to go with the neato new kid on the block that you've never even handled, much less shot, because it might turn out to be "better". Just how exactly would you make this comparison? How long do you think this new pistol might have to be out before the amount of information available about it is comparable to the information currently available about real-world testing of the P365?


Totally agree!i have owned my 365 for one year now. I take it to the range weekly with my other guns. It is now always at my side or in my pocket. I am very happy with this pistol to the exclusion of my p938. So, I have no interest in a reproduction made by SA.
 
Posts: 568 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: October 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
Picture of cslinger
posted Hide Post
Like I said before, the engineering challenges of these Uber small big’ish caliber pistols are not trite. Add in a tiny mag stuffing as much spring tension as possible and frankly I am amazed the 365 has had as few teething problems as it did.

I wouldn’t jump head first into ANYBODY’S attempt at this type of pistol.

All that said for me personally none of these autos pocket and or draw from a pocket well. None come close to a J-Frame esque’ Gun in this niche for me. So for me personally if a holster and belt come into play....I am happy to carry a much larger gun. These are of course my own idjit on the interwebz opinion and rest assured I know very little about a lot. Smile. I can simply grab and grip a G19 sized gun more naturally and reliably then anything smaller and as I have gotten older that makes more sense to me. I am also very comfortable gripping and drawing a J Frame from a pocket.

Doesn’t make me right, just makes me right for me.


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 4478 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
All this talk about patent right infringement... The P365 comes with a 10 round mag; the Hellcat comes with an 11 round mag. Technically not the same mag. And... marketed completely different.
No infringement issues here
 
Posts: 70 | Registered: March 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by flaman:
All this talk about patent right infringement... The P365 comes with a 10 round mag; the Hellcat comes with an 11 round mag. Technically not the same mag. And... marketed completely different.
No infringement issues here


What about putting 10 rounds in the 11 round mag? Hell, I can barely get 8 into my 10 round P365 mag.
 
Posts: 40 | Location: N. TX | Registered: June 22, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
11 rds is great, but with PPS M2's going for 290 and Shield's for 250, I don't see me parting with 500 plus for "new".
 
Posts: 2903 | Location: San Marcos,Tx. | Registered: July 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of EasyFire
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by iron chef:
quote:
Originally posted by smithnsig:
quote:
Originally posted by EasyFire:
Wonder if there will be a patent infringement issue?

Sigs patents are marketing. No way you can patent a magazine shape or contour.

Patent law is very complicated. If you have the will and the resources, you can patent almost anything.

Spyderco successfully patented the Round Hole(tm) in their folding knives. It's just a hole in the blade, right? Yeah, well why do you think all their competitors were using thumb-studs and blade extensions instead of a simple hole? They didn't want to pay licensing fees to Spyderco. The patent expired around 2001.

Harley-Davidson successfully patented the sound of their engine, because they claimed Japanese motorcycle companies were copying their sound. If H-D can successfully file patent infringement for the sound of their crappy, misfiring V-twin, then with enough motivation and funding, Sig could file a compelling infringement case against others they claim are copying their mag design.


Yes patent law can be complex. My brother, a Dallas attorney, during cocktail hour would muse about his idea of patenting the color purple or various hues thereof. His choice of purple was likely because of YOGA PANTS!

IIRC Apple tried on a patent claim regarding the arc of the curve on the corners of the iPhone. Maybe there will be a claim and maybe there will not. I am not betting either way today.


EasyFire [AT] zianet.com
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Posts: 1288 | Location: Denver Area Colorado | Registered: December 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
So I guess people think because they both make small, high capacity magazines that there is only one way to do that... Confused
 
Posts: 43721 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
Unless one magazine is a duplicate of the other and they're so close that they're interchangeable, it would seem to be a pointless discussion about the irrelevant.

Patent infringement is an issue for the manufacturers, but nothing has been provided which suggests it's at all an issue here. At the purchaser end, the only real concern is whether the pistol works.
 
Posts: 4156 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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