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new Springfield Armory Hellcat 11+1 pistol, competition for P365 Login/Join 
Go ahead punk, make my day
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Posts: 43186 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I can't tell if I'm
tired, or just lazy
Picture of ggile
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I really like the optics ready aspect, too bad it striker fired....not interested!


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Posts: 1223 | Location: Lake County South Dakota-pheasant country | Registered: June 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Res ipsa loquitur
Picture of BB61
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quote:
Originally posted by smithnsig:
quote:
Originally posted by BB61:
quote:
Originally posted by PASig:
quote:
Originally posted by EasyFire:
Wonder if there will be a patent infringement issue?


For what? Being small?


^^^^^^^^^
IIRC, SIG patented their magazine on the P365. If you watch the SAI video, they claim they have patented their 11 round magazine so that issue appears to be moot. SAI also takes a thinly veiled swing at SIG, IMO, when they state they would never sacrifice reliability for capacity. I’m interested. It will be fascinating to watch real world testing of the Hellcat vs. the P365.


Sigs patents are marketing. No way you can patent a magazine shape or contour.


^^^^^
Incorrect. At 1:12 in their release video SAI claims they have a patented 11 round magazine. SIG Sauer has also patented or patent pending magazine shapes. For example:
https://patents.justia.com/patent/20190195584

I do agree SIG is good at marketing.


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Posts: 10707 | Registered: October 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get my pies
outta the oven!

Picture of PASig
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Competition with these micro 9mm's is a good thing, it forces everyone to make a better product.

I noticed a marked uptick in Kel-Tec's fit and finish after Ruger and a dozen other makers got into the micro .380 market like 9-10 years ago.


 
Posts: 25468 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
Picture of cslinger
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I wonder what little design flaws will crop up over time. The engineering / tolerance envelope for these itty bitty high capacity guns is really tight.

More bang sticks is better for the breed as a whole though.


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 4376 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of EasyFire
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Guess I now have another pistol to add to my samples for concealed carry classes. Briefcase is getting full & heavy. ☺️


EasyFire AT zianet.com
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Posts: 1259 | Location: Denver Area Colorado | Registered: December 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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quote:
Originally posted by PASig:
Competition with these micro 9mm's is a good thing, it forces everyone to make a better product.
Yup indeed.

Looks like SAI listened, no stupid gripzone branding, no yoga pants, looks to be all business.

Time and use will tell the tale.
 
Posts: 43186 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There marketing department needs better people. Tight yoga pants with the Saint, now the Hellcat, waiting for the Sinners SBR. Naming it after an Navy fighter prop is interesting. If my memory serves me correctly Hellcats of the Navy was a Ronald Reagan film.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ZSMICHAEL,
 
Posts: 6387 | Location: MS GULF COAST | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
There marketing department needs better people. Tight yoga pants with the Saint, now the Hellcat, waiting for the Sinners SBR. Naming it after an Navy fighter jet is interesting. If my memory serves me correctly Hellcats of the Navy was a Ronald Reagan film.


I thought they named it after a Fiat....



"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 13885 | Location: FL | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
PopeDaddy
Picture of x0225095
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The Hellcat was a prop driven fighter plane flown by the USN in WWII...I mean, it was if we’re keeping score.

Dodge’s only contributions were to make it faster and to give it 4 wheels.


0:01
 
Posts: 3389 | Location: ALABAMA | Registered: January 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The guy behind the guy
Picture of esdunbar
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lol at anyone who thinks Sig has an actionable suit against anyone for their 365 mag. I said it when the gun was released and this "patent" bullshit was thrown around. It's a freaking double stack mag folks. this is marketing crap. I thought S&W would be the first to copy to the 365, but it Springfield was the one. S&W version in 3...2...1.........and no lawsuits will be filed. I'll take any bets anyone wants to place.


E.S. Dunbar
________________________________
I'm confused...wait, maybe I'm not.
 
Posts: 7009 | Location: Toledo, Ohio | Registered: April 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of RioGrande481
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There is also the rumored P365 competitor from FN. I agree there will be no lawsuits!

I do kinda like the idea of a tiny FN 509 though!


RioGrande481

“I didn’t get where I am today by everything smelling of Bolivian Unicyclist’s jock straps!”
 
Posts: 451 | Registered: August 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
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quote:
Originally posted by ruger357:
Not a big fan of springfield but if this gun works better than a 365, I might consider it.

Better? What's the problem with the P365 currently?


Q


2016 MAGA ---> 2020 KAG
* P228 factoids *


 
Posts: 18356 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by ruger357:
Not a big fan of springfield but if this gun works better than a 365, I might consider it.

Better? What's the problem with the P365 currently?
You are right, the P365 has been perfect in every aspect, never failed, ever. Big Grin
 
Posts: 43186 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by ruger357:
Not a big fan of springfield but if this gun works better than a 365, I might consider it.

Better? What's the problem with the P365 currently?
You are right, the P365 has been perfect in every aspect, never failed, ever. Big Grin

That's why "currently". Most everyone is well aware of the initial issues with the P365, although some tried to pretend they were nothing.


Q


2016 MAGA ---> 2020 KAG
* P228 factoids *


 
Posts: 18356 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I do on paper like their idea behind the grip texture, but we'll have to see what it feels like in reality.

No plans to get rid of my P365MS, though.


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Posts: 950 | Location: Oregon | Registered: March 18, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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I've never actually seen the patent, and I looked a while back. I'm not exactly sure what they're trying to patent. But if it gets approved, and someone copies the design, SIG can sue for infringement. But, of course, the devil is in the details. If anyone finds the actual patent application, please post a link.

As far as this gun. Let it be out on the market for six months, and let's see what the long term reviews look like.

quote:
Originally posted by esdunbar:
lol at anyone who thinks Sig has an actionable suit against anyone for their 365 mag. I said it when the gun was released and this "patent" bullshit was thrown around. It's a freaking double stack mag folks. this is marketing crap. I thought S&W would be the first to copy to the 365, but it Springfield was the one. S&W version in 3...2...1.........and no lawsuits will be filed. I'll take any bets anyone wants to place.
 
Posts: 19138 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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Someday, SA Inc may actually come up with an original idea, and not just copying what's successful, or just putting their name on firearms designed elsewhere.

Wait, WTF am I saying?? That's never gonna happen.
 
Posts: 88080 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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Color me surprised.

I'll admit, I gave SA Inc. a lot of crap in various threads about the hype leading up to this, as a result of their hypetastic roll-out of their run-of-the-mill Saint AR.

Granted, it's a direct response/copy of the P365, but so far the P365 basically stands alone in its class. This is the first bit of real competition for the P365.

Besides, I'm sure there will be people that, after comparing the two, will automatically go with the Hellcat over the P365 because it "goes to 11, and 11 is 1 more than 10". Wink




Now, I'm not going to run out and buy one, or replace my P365 with one of these. But this actually looks like a good gun that will sell very well (as long as it's reliable).

SA Inc. is in a good position to sell quite a few of these before the other manufacturer catch up and the double stack micro-compact pocket gun market gets flooded.
 
Posts: 23419 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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To *me* the main selling point of concealability of all these subcompact length grip frame pistols, is also their biggest weakness. Using their flush fit mags, they are slower to get a good quick grip on and draw with, are slower to do mag changes with, and are generally harder to control and shoot accurately fast, than say more of a compact sized grip length like a 365XL or Glock 43X, where you can get a full grip on them when using their standard flush fit mags. IMHO, if you are using a good belt and holster combination with lets say the above two pistols,you loose very little in the way of concealability to these smaller subcompact pistols, and with none of their drawbacks. IMHO, every size of pistol is a compromise somewhere.
 
Posts: 303 | Location: Ohio | Registered: November 01, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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