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Picture of Oz_Shadow
posted
Primarily considering upgraded triggers, magazine availability and magazine cost, does the P320 full size win on any points?


I am looking at a Gen 5 vs the full size, standard P320.

I can evaluate grips, etc. This is just a range gun and I am not interested in a 34 or a DA/SA which I have plenty of.

The Glock mags are everywhere and half the cost. That may be the deciding factor unless I am missing something.
 
Posts: 16289 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My limited opinion:

I have a Sig P320 carry with the Romeo sights...
I've had very limited experience with Glocks...

I actually prefer SA/DA for carry or self defense.

That dern Sig 320 is too good and too accurate and has performed perfectly at both ranges and when I took a very difficult timed qualification test... shot a perfect score.

Finally, cost (pistol or magazines) have never been a primary factor in my choices of a weapon.
 
Posts: 1883 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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Glock magazines are cheaper and more widely available. And there are more aftermarket options out there for Glock trigger upgrades. So no, the P320 doesn't "win" on either of those specific points.

But P320 mags are cheap/available enough. And it doesn't matter if there are 50 different aftermarket triggers out there, since you only need 1 that works well for your purposes. (Which may even be the factory trigger... The Gen 5 Glock and P320 both have comparatively good factory triggers, and there are a lot of aftermarket triggers out there that are just overpriced snake oil.)

I think the P320 is a great option, as a whole.

I'm issued a Glock 17, but I usually choose to carry my own P320. I like them both fairly equally, and don't see the G17 as noticeably "better" overall than the P320.
 
Posts: 25955 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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+'s for Glock ... Mags are $15.00 cheaper. And, I'm a mag whore. I try to keep at least 10 of each on hand. For many, this is enough reason to buy Glock.

+'s for Sig ... Better ergonomics, better trigger, better factory sights.

Full disclosure ... I'm not a fan of trading internals on any gun I might one day use to defend myself. And to that end, I limit myself to upgrading sights ONLY!


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"Tonight, we are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom. Our grief has turned to anger and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done". {George W. Bush, Post 9/11}



 
Posts: 723 | Location: Long Island, N.Y. / Stephentown, N.Y. | Registered: March 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not to be a PITA, but I wonder what the price difference will be after the election. IMHO we can count on 320 mags being pumped out with a will for some time to come.
 
Posts: 24680 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I guess it comes down to your criteria for "win." The P320FS with a Grayguns trigger kit is far better a trigger than anything you'll be able to do to a Glock. Light, no overtravel, short reset, reliable, choice of trigger styles, hard to beat.

Glock has a lot more options, but the P320 has enough. Depending on what you plan to do with it, you have various grip modules; go with the TXG grip and it feels like a steel frame pistol. The Grayguns fat guide rod is an improvement, and the spring options enable you to tune it to the load.

Both the P320 and a Glock are dirt-simple to work on; whatever you need to do, you can do yourself.

I like Glocks. I just finished putting together a competition rig for a G34, and I have quite a few Glocks and carry a G32. You can go as far as you want to with a Glock. The difference with the P320 is that you don't need to. It's great out of the box, and improvements with aftermarket stuff is more subtle, not dramatic. It's already just fine.

A glock you'll have to shoot some, to get good with the pistol; the P320 is easier to shoot. Both will show bad habits; the P320 may be easier to get away with some bad habits.

The Glock doesn't offer a lot of options for the frame, it's mostly glock, or glockish. The Sig grip modules do change the feel of the firearm quite a bit, enabling you to set it up your way, your size grip and frame, your texture and ergonomics.

Get both.
 
Posts: 5204 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm issued a G17 gen 5 and really like it. I also have a G45 and like it. I prefer to carry a P320 X compact and I shoot a P320 carry in competitions. Recently, I am concerned with the safety of the P320 with reports of discharges in holsters.


DPR
 
Posts: 521 | Registered: March 10, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Quite different pistols, in my own experience.

My P320 FS .40 and Compact nines are what I call a "natural shooters". They will perform superbly for me, even on "bad hair" days. Superb trigger, no matter how you configure it.

My G19 and G34's required me to adapt to them. If I don't shoot them for a period of time, I have to relearn their idiosyncrasies. Only guns I've ever had with this issue.

I've been shooting for 50 years and taught for 25, so it's not a newbie thing. Glocks are the only guns I've ever owned that required me to adapt to them in any significant fashion.

Jones perfectly explained the difference in a post a few years ago. He stated that the P320 is more tolerant of "bad inputs" than Glocks.


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Posts: 4382 | Location: Northeast | Registered: June 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I carried a Gen3 Glock daily for 7 years until my department switched to the P320. I've been carrying that for almost 4 years now, and am also a P320 armorer. In my opinion, the P320 is better in every way except one. Rust. I abused the crap out of that Glock and never once had a rust problem. My P320SC ankle gun has recurring issues with rust on the mag release and inside the bore at the muzzle. It has not been subjected to anything the Glock was not subjected to...if anything I clean and lube it more frequently.

This is a non-issue, really, for urban ccw or duty carry, where you can regularly clean and lube the gun, but when I go backpacking I take the Glock because you can't really do that on the trail. I've never owned a gen 4 or 5 Glock, so I can't speak to the finish on those.

Otherwise, the P320 is better in every way. The grip modularity beats the replaceable backstraps of the Glock hands down. The trigger is better, the factory sights are WAY better, and they are easier to shoot accurately. If I had to pick just one, I'd take the P320...but do so keeping that one issue in mind.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 92fstech,
 
Posts: 3846 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good to know. I abuse my P320 duty gun just as much as my Glocks, and haven't had any issues with rust yet.

But I don't carry on the ankle, or in a fabric/leather holster, either of which could potentially exacerbate moisture and rust issues.
 
Posts: 25955 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah I've never had rust issues with my duty gun, either....just the backup. That metal mag release rides against my leg and gets exposed to sweat and moisture and dust, etc. Now that I know about it it's no big deal...I brush it down and oil it regularly. But my G26 never had that problem at all.
 
Posts: 3846 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Nipper:
Quite different pistols, in my own experience.

My P320 FS .40 and Compact nines are what I call a "natural shooters". They will perform superbly for me, even on "bad hair" days. Superb trigger, no matter how you configure it.

My G19 and G34's required me to adapt to them. If I don't shoot them for a period of time, I have to relearn their idiosyncrasies. Only guns I've ever had with this issue.

I've been shooting for 50 years and taught for 25, so it's not a newbie thing. Glocks are the only guns I've ever owned that required me to adapt to them in any significant fashion.

Jones perfectly explained the difference in a post a few years ago. He stated that the P320 is more tolerant of "bad inputs" than Glocks.


I remember that thread. It's so true. Qual'd on my P365, HK VP9, and PX4, as well as my duty Gen 5 G17. Had to "work" much more with the 17 to shoot it well, whereas the other three were much more natural and effortless to keep on track once I refreshed myself as to their different respective points of impact. And, all of those pistols are pretty different, so that's saying something.


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Posts: 1116 | Location: Oregon | Registered: March 18, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm a proponent of the G19. I have not handled a Gray Guns workup, but Glock, with anything from Apex to Vicker's flat trigger, and a Ghost Rocket connector, is really, really, good.

Bargain basement, the Vicker's flat trigger ($35-40) takes up ~3mm of takeup, and ~2-3 mm of overtravel. The Ghost Tactical connector (~$20) takes up the remainder of the overtravel, and will let you shoot some really nice splits. I suspect Gray Guns action work is a bit more than $55. Worth it, but on a strictly cost-benefit, it doesn't wash, unless you're already heavily invested in 320 mags, which...

Are $15-28 more than Glock. Pmags are still $12-15/mag, locally. I have yet to see 320 mags under $40/ea. Certainly, you can use Beretta mags, if you're willing to cut an upper notch, but that's an afternoon or two, without a mill.

Parts for everything are scarce & expensive, but Glock is still more available & cheaper.
 
Posts: 30 | Registered: August 22, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My take:

If quality of the trigger matters, then for the win it's the SIG hands down. Even with the pinnacle of aftermarket parts, the best one can do with a Glock is get a trigger that--by any objective judgment and measure--is at most "decent". I've tried any number of Gucci builds and played with countless drop-ins components; despite cleaning up the break, there's still ample mush and vagueness to every system I've sampled or assembled. The Glock way of building a trigger just doesn't have 'precision' as part of its ethos, despite what Glock's marketing department might otherwise have you believe.

If sheer simplicity is important, then it's no question going to be Glock. There's evidently a price to be paid for that better trigger on the SIG since there's lots of fussy bits and pieces to the 320's FCU assembly that you just don't have to concern yourself with on a Glock. There is a brusque elegance to that simplicity, the KISS of the semi-auto pistol realm. Some others have come closer, but no one yet has mastered what Glock has done.

If the magazine supply/resupply scenario is important, then Glock is the clear winner again. Factory SIG mags are simply more expensive for dealers to buy, end of story. Even with their best deals during buying show events, SIG's discounts to dealers pale in comparison to everyday pricing for Glock mags with distributors. As a result that cost will be forwarded onto consumers. End of story, Pt. 2. Not sure where people are finding that the retail price difference is only $15; around here it's more like $20. During the COVID rush I've been able to get resupplied with Glock mags regularly out of distributors' stores (the 33rd 9mm mags have been a bit harder to source, especially in black, but our shop has never completely run out during the past 7 months and is current chock full of Glock mags--well except for 45GAP, that is). Can't say that SIG has been able to keep up during the same timeframe.

If strong aftermarket options is vitally important, here again Glock wins out. Although I'd argue that the 320 really doesn't suffer as a result. But if having choices matters, then the Glock platform certainly benefits from just being on the market decades longer. But even so the 320 aftermarket space seems to be quickly catching up. Glock may be the winner right now but I would anticipate that this soon will be a toss-up category.

As for durability and longevity, deciding a winner here is tougher, at least how I see it. The simplicity of a Glock does bring a lot to the table, yet the modularity of the SIG is of HUGE benefit. Damage a Glock frame and at the very least you're buying a new frame and enduring another background check as a result. Do the same to the 320 and as long as the FCU is not seriously damaged, all it takes is $35-40 for a new grip module with no additional background check needed. I tend to say that the simpler Glock will win out regardless, but this one to me is a lot closer that some of the earlier categories.

In terms of shooting performance, there's no question in my mind that the SIG is the easier of the two to get good with. Glock's trigger is the biggest stumbling block; that trigger bar lockup lever smack dab in the middle of the trigger is an annoyance to a good trigger pull that didn't have to be that way, yet there it is. Can it be worked through? Certainly, with enough time, ammo and repetition. Going with an aftermarket trigger assembly helps tremendously, but that's an extra-cost mod that most individuals aren't willing to pay more money for. The 320 doesn't point 'naturally' for me, but I found that from cold I got tighter groupings with it right out of the box. Not quite Walther PPQ-tight the first time I shot that gun, but certainly better than how I did when I first shot a Glock all those decades ago.

Is there a final winner? Well being the Glock guy that I am and the fact that the 320--even with the more preferable X-module in place--doesn't point well with my ingrained muscle memory, the G17 gets my nod, especially in Gen5 form. But it's not a clear-cut victory, despite Glock winning four of my six categories. Two of those four wins were of the "by a whisker" type. So it was close in the end. Frankly the 320F has little to be ashamed of in this dogfight. SIG themselves certainly has flooded the 320 market with all sorts of options that Glock up until now can only dream of. The X-5 Legion is really a tremendous striker in a world stuffed to the brim with quality choices. But in the end the utter simplicity of Glock's basic design wins out. Plus I've long figured out how to properly use that relatively foul Glock trigger. So as the fanboys say, GLOCK FTW.

But just barely.


-MG
 
Posts: 374 | Location: The commie, rainy side of WA | Registered: April 19, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The 320 is a nice gun. The only thing that keeps me from really loving it is how high the slide/bore axis is. Mind you, it doesn't bother me when shooting at all. I don't notice "muzzle flip" from the hight bore. Rather, it annoys me when carrying and when just looking at the gun. It's so tall from the bottom of the rail to the top of slide that it just doesn't lay as flat/nice when carrying for me.

I much prefer the grip angle of the 320 (especially the Wilson grips), but I just can't get it to feel as comfy when carrying. My solution was to go with a Shadow Systems "Glock," but they don't make a 17 version. They do make a 19L though.

since it isn't for carry, it's hard to argue against either though.
 
Posts: 7548 | Registered: April 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by esdunbar:
The 320 is a nice gun. The only thing that keeps me from really loving it is how high the slide/bore axis is. Mind you, it doesn't bother me when shooting at all. I don't notice "muzzle flip" from the hight bore. Rather, it annoys me when carrying and when just looking at the gun. It's so tall from the bottom of the rail to the top of slide that it just doesn't lay as flat/nice when carrying for me.

I had a P320C. Although I liked how it shot, this was a dealbreaker for me too. I didn't like how chunky the slide and rail looked and felt.

Regarding magazines, I didn't used to understand why guys made a big deal about being 'committed to a platform', such as 1911 or Glock, until I started acquiring more guns. If you have ten pistols, do you want ten different mags? I don't. I like that my P226, 228, & 229 can share mags.

I read all kinds of good things about the Arex Zero 1, aka Slovenian Sig, and they are very reasonably priced, but I'm not interested enough to get a gun w/ hard-to-find mags. If they had designed their Sig clone to take Sig mags, I would have bought one by now. They screwed the pooch in that regard, IMHO.

And this is where Glock takes the cake. Their mags are so popular, that they've become a meme.



I have two carbines that use Glock 9mm mags. There are other striker-fired pistols I prefer to Glock, but as long as I have these carbines, then I will own at least one Glock double-stack 9mm, b/c the mag intercompatiblity is a big plus in my book.
 
Posts: 1899 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Oz_Shadow:
Primarily considering upgraded triggers, magazine availability and magazine cost, does the P320 full size win on any points?


I am looking at a Gen 5 vs the full size, standard P320.

I can evaluate grips, etc. This is just a range gun and I am not interested in a 34 or a DA/SA which I have plenty of.

The Glock mags are everywhere and half the cost. That may be the deciding factor unless I am missing something.

I have a G17 Gen 3 and and P320F
And they are built from parts so I've been into every dark corner of each one.

1) The 17rd ACT mag #3209 for P320 is around $20, which is similar to Glock OEM mag prices.
The ACT mag is an Italian made mag that I think is nicer than the SIG marked mags.
So there goes the cheap mag argument for Glock.
And yes, you can buy Glock Pmags for around $14 if you like those.

2) You can get a better trigger out of a P320.
I have an X-Five that has the best striker trigger that I ever pulled.
It only stands to reason that P320 coming some 30 years after Glock, would be a more developed design.

3) Don't let anyone sell you on the mythical "high bore axis" thing.
It is a non-issue in real life.

Get a hold of a P320F, X-Five or X-Five Legion and see what you think.
My X-Five which is all tuned up (read trigger) is so easy to shoot accurately.

I can also knock all the targets down with my G17, but there's just somethin' about that SIG.
 
Posts: 398 | Registered: November 03, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by DirectDrive:


1) The 17rd ACT mag #3209 for P320 is around $20, which is similar to Glock OEM mag prices.
The ACT mag is an Italian made mag that I think is nicer than the SIG marked mags.
So there goes the cheap mag argument for Glock.
And yes, you can buy Glock Pmags for around $14 if you like those.


I haven't found any ACT/RIA mags in stock in over 2 months. I was glad to find some used Sig mags at $35/ea to round out my bag.

OTOH, I picked up 6 Amend2 34 round sticks for $103 delivered.

If you have a source for RIAs, I'm up for another 6. Please do lmk. Thanks!
 
Posts: 30 | Registered: August 22, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob1972:
quote:
Originally posted by DirectDrive:


1) The 17rd ACT mag #3209 for P320 is around $20, which is similar to Glock OEM mag prices.
The ACT mag is an Italian made mag that I think is nicer than the SIG marked mags.
So there goes the cheap mag argument for Glock.
And yes, you can buy Glock Pmags for around $14 if you like those.


I haven't found any ACT/RIA mags in stock in over 2 months. I was glad to find some used Sig mags at $35/ea to round out my bag.

OTOH, I picked up 6 Amend2 34 round sticks for $103 delivered.

If you have a source for RIAs, I'm up for another 6. Please do lmk. Thanks!

I just bought 4 a couple of months ago from a small shop.
I can't find the name in my emails.
I did have to dial up my Google-Foo and search that part number.

It was Total Impact in Florida.
I don't see them on their site, but you could try calling or emailing.
They were under $20 ea.
 
Posts: 398 | Registered: November 03, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As a total system I’d go Glock. Cheaper more available parts. Super simple design you can detail strip down to the last part watching a 5 minute YouTube video and only using a 5/32 punch. Every sight, holster, accessory is made for Glocks. Magazines are cheaper and more rust resistant. 33 round OEM mags. Cheaper MagPul magazines if you want $12 practice mags to beat up.

Much more mature proven platform that’s been tested in the real world and refined over 38 years.

Also if anyone is interested I called Glock and a new frame is only $100 plus whatever your local sales tax is and the cost to overnight or 2 day Fedex your old frame to them for destruction. Not that I’ve ever needed a new frame but it’s still relative cheap to have one replaced. Granted you can buy a grip shell for a P320 and replace it yourself for $40. One thing I don’t like about the P320 is the ejector is part of the trigger module. Bend that over inserting a magazine and you’ll need a new trigger module.

And finally, I’m honestly still a little leery of the P320 because of the latest lawsuits and reports of QC issues from agency users.


"Clear Eyes. Full Hearts. Can't Lose."
 
Posts: 2976 | Location: Greenwood, Indiana/Orlando, Florida, USA | Registered: September 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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