What happened to the P227

June 04, 2018, 12:03 PM

Stupid question but what DID happen to it? I owned one and sold it for something else but want one again. It seems no one talks about it as much. I know it was bulkier than desired. Did it fall off in popularity or is it THAT good that everyone is keeping theirs.

June 04, 2018, 12:17 PM

sigfreund

Before SIG actually decided to develop and produce them, one could have thought that half the members here would have sold their children into slavery for the chance of owning a staggered column magazine 45 ACP or 10mm P220. Having seen previous examples of the “gotta haves” relating to many other products, I was always a little skeptical about how sincere those desires were, but what did I know? Well, now I believe I know and can add both to my list of examples.

June 04, 2018, 01:23 PM

12131

quote:
Originally posted by fallenangelhim:
Did it fall off in popularity or is it THAT good that everyone is keeping theirs.

More likely the former. Beside being bulky for only 2 extra rounds, I see a couple of other reasons. Or maybe three.

1 - The E2 grip is a minus to a lot of folks.

2 - The well known crappy 14-rounders, which, to this day, no one is certain if SIG/Mec-Gar ever fixed. A lot of folks were counting on the extra capcacity for this gun. But, with the uncertainty, there is no point of getting a bulky 10-round gun. Sure, some folks will tell you they never have any problems with their 14-rounders, but there are many more who experience the opposite.

3 - No adequate aftermarket support - factory mags (10-rounders) are hard to find. That's the often heard complaint. And, Mec-Gar is not willing to make a 11- or even 12-rounders. The gun would probably be more popular, if there exists a Mec-Gar mag with just a couple of extra rounds to justify its bulkiness. Doesnt need to be that 14-rounder with the giant elephant foot, really.

June 04, 2018, 01:38 PM

12131

Btw, I should add that the gun itself is excellent, mechanically/functionally. It's all the other stuff that work against it.

June 04, 2018, 02:05 PM

MeatMan

I like the 227 enough that I have 3 of them in strategically placed safes for home protection. I like the 45ACP for home defense. 10+1 and a spare mag gives me enough confidence without messing with the 14 round magazines. As 12131 states, the gun itself has been functionally excellent.

June 04, 2018, 03:01 PM

Il Cattivo

quote:
3 - No adequate aftermarket support

I keep wondering if the fact that the 320 more or less took off about the time the 227 was released had anything to do with it. I don't recall having seen any advertising, and I can't help but wonder if the lack of availability of even the 10-round magazines (for a time) kinda turned off potential buyers.

I wonder about the E2 grip as well. I'm not a fan (even though I tolerate it on the 227 in the house), so I'm not sure if it was an issue or its just something that I could've done without given the trigger that was built into the pistol.

June 04, 2018, 03:14 PM

cas

...and 10+ years too late.

June 04, 2018, 03:56 PM

colt_saa

I really like my P227. Solving the E2 grips problem was easy for me since I was already waiting on my Hogues. I just used the factory supllied grips until Ken came to our rescue with P227 wood

quote:
2 - The well known crappy 14-rounders, which, to this day, no one is certain if SIG/Mec-Gar ever fixed. A lot of folks were counting on the extra capcacity for this gun. But, with the uncertainty, there is no point of getting a bulky 10-round gun. Sure, some folks will tell you they never have any problems with their 14-rounders, but there are many more who experience the opposite.

The 14 round magazines that came in the plastic bags had problems. The newer ones in boxes are working just fine.

Now I only had 4 of each for testing and I only had one P227 to run them in so my sample size is small but I have associates with similar experiences.

SIG has been open to replacing ones that did not work. Have you asked to have yours swapped out?

quote:
Beside being bulky for only 2 extra rounds

Changing the tall plastic base plate lock for one of the flat style like are used in the P226 magazines will increase the magazine capacity by one. I would have bet that you were aware of that mod since it has been around for so long with the P320 guys.

I do not find the P227 to be different enough from the P226 and P229 grips sizes to mention

I would buy one in 10MM without hesitation

June 04, 2018, 04:39 PM

drtenb330

^^^^ I also got lucky. I bought the full size 227, bought the 14 round boxed mags, put in a short reset trigger, changed to Hogue grips, and keep it by my front door, in my main safe. Never had a problem, suits me fine. I did end up with the p320 full size 45 and compact 45 as well. I like the bigger boolets, and the one shot kill.......

June 04, 2018, 04:52 PM

12131

quote:
Originally posted by colt_saa:
I really like my P227. Solving the E2 grips problem was easy for me since I was already waiting on my Hogues. I just used the factory supllied grips until Ken came to our rescue with P227 wood

I know there are P227 fans out there. You are one example. But, it is simply not as popular as some like it to be.

The 14 round magazines that came in the plastic bags had problems. The newer ones in boxes are working just fine.

Now I only had 4 of each for testing and I only had one P227 to run them in so my sample size is small but I have associates with similar experiences.

SIG has been open to replacing ones that did not work. Have you asked to have yours swapped out?
I've read that folks with newer ones still having the same problem. That's why I said you cannot be certain what, if anything, was fixed. This leaves a bad taste in many fans of the P227. I had the original P227 Nitron, was the early adopter of the Tacops, and the first one to report the 14-rd problem to SIG. I elected to exchange my 6 14-rounders to 8 of their 10-rounders at the time, because I know the 10-rounders work, and suspected that the 14-rounder issue might be system wide and not just isolated. Turned out I was right. Eventually sold all my P227s. The P220 will serve me just fine, with the extended 10-rounders.

Changing the tall plastic base plate lock for one of the flat style like are used in the P226 magazines will increase the magazine capacity by one. I would have bet that you were aware of that mod since it has been around for so long with the P320 guys.

I do not find the P227 to be different enough from the P226 and P229 grips sizes to mention

Most average gun owning folks, I suspect, are the type who buy stuff expecting not to have to spend extra bucks and fiddle around to add this or modify that. SIG factory should have given the consumers the 11 rounders (it is obviously doable) and the G10 grips (or the stock plastic grips) to begin with. They even cheaped out and outfitted the Equinox with the E2 grip. None of their other Equinox models have the E2 coming from factory.

Putting the P227 SAS side-by-side with the P229 SAS, the difference if obvious. It may be a "compact" gun, but it is bigger than the P229.
And the full size P227 might not be that much different from the P226, but I'll take the 17+1 round P226 over 11+1 round P227.

June 04, 2018, 05:01 PM

Il Cattivo

quote:
They even cheaped out and outfitted the Equinox with the E2 grip. None of their other Equinox models have the E2 coming from factory.

A bit OT, but has the E2 grip really been a barn burner on the market? At one point I thought SIG was changing over all of the P22Xs to the E2 grips, but that only includes one of several current models of 226 and (to me, tellingly) its never appeared on the vaunted Legion series.

June 04, 2018, 05:03 PM

10round

I wanted one but couldn't afford it, still want one. I think traditional da/sa is taking a back seat to the 320 and 365, which is too bad because I see da/sa making a comeback in my area.

Not to mention, if your heart is set on a ten shot 45acp it's hard to pass up all the police trade-in M&Ps out there for $300.

June 04, 2018, 05:11 PM

12131

quote:
Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
quote:
They even cheaped out and outfitted the Equinox with the E2 grip. None of their other Equinox models have the E2 coming from factory.

A bit OT, but has the E2 grip really been a barn burner on the market? At one point I thought SIG was changing over all of the P22Xs to the E2 grips, but that only includes one of several current models of 226 and (to me, tellingly) its never appeared on the vaunted Legion series.

The E2 concept was good on paper. Thin as possible, grippy, one piece requiring no screws. In practice, it had big problem. Since it is just a snap on deal with nothing to hold it firmly in place, it squirms around during firing. Big problem to folks. And, since it's very thin and flexible, it loosens over time. No good. I've always said that SIG should make it with the 2 panels using screws. Finally, SIG Germany are putting these "E3" grips on some of their P226s, like their LDC. I bet no more squirming around. I would love to get my hands on these E3, since I really like the gripping surface.

June 04, 2018, 05:26 PM

BBMW

Metal framed DA/SA pistols have been losing sales/popularity. .45 ACP is, at best, stable if not declining in sales/popularity. So someone makes a metal framed DA/SA gun in .45, and the people wonder why it doesn't sell that well.

June 04, 2018, 05:47 PM

SevenPlusOne

I thought I'd get one, but couldn't justify buying a new P227 for two more rounds, since the 14 rounders didn't work. If I need 10 rounds of 45 ACP in a SIG, I'll just stick a 10 round magazine in my P220. Plus, I prefer the grip angle of the P220.

June 04, 2018, 06:05 PM

TrojanX4

12131 raises some great points about the P227. Lack of Sig support to this model is curious to me, it's basically a flagship P226 that shoots 45. It should also be issued from the factory with Sig logo Hogue G10 grips instead of E2 grips.

I just had my two P227s milled for a Romeo 1 and then shipped them over to Robert Burke for carry + QRT work. Loved them before the upgrades, now they are just over the top awesome.

The P227 is definitely one of the best shooting 45's out there. In fact Robert Burke unsolicited made the comment to me that he doesn't understand why the P227 isn't more popular because it shoots so smooth for a 45. I have to agree.

June 04, 2018, 07:50 PM

hrcjon

Its still in the catalog (unlike the 239) and they bothered to make an RX one. So I'd say its selling well enough at the commercial level, at least compared to Sig's expectations.
I have yet to see a working 14 rounder. I've tried a bunch.
I've had PMM mill mine for an RMR and its a pretty darn good gun for almost any use.
JB

June 04, 2018, 07:50 PM

eyrich

The E2 grips were a stopper for me. I wanted one with the extreme G10 grips.

June 04, 2018, 08:53 PM

hrcjon

grips, sights, that's mostly personal. easy enough to add. They let the necessary stuff there.

June 04, 2018, 08:53 PM

soggy_spinout

A s-l-o-w seller for us. As for myself, I like how it shoots but I prefer the fit of my existing P220s and for capacity my G21 is more than adequate when it comes to 45AUTO.