quote:

Originally posted by ah3:
My preference by far is Holosun models with circle and dot. I like green over red but that's purely personal preference. The few pistols I have optics on are also ones I carry so they have larger rather than smaller dots. The Holosun are really nice in that people newer to pistol optics can use both the circle + dot to help learn proper draw stroke and fast dot acquisition and then change it to dot-only later on if preferred.

The Holosun reticle is cool. I bought one because it matches the RMR Mount I had for a PCC but on my pistols, I like the 3.25 RMR.

^^^ Insofar as a consensus has emerged from this thread (at least at this point), that seems to be the consensus that has emerged.

quote:

Originally posted by YVK:
A little factoid: Leupold, who has been in this dot thing longer than most and has one of the best / brightest 2.5 MOA circle dots on the market (I am referring to the actual dot), is testing out a 6 MOA circle dot, as in getting feedback from users.

I'm speculating, here, but I'd be surprised if a shift to larger reticles didn't also involve a shift away from dots towards something like triangles. The center of a triangle is the same as the center of a round dot for purposes of close-up shooting, and some projection (like the top of a triangle, for instance) can give the reticle user the option of having a precise aiming point should that be relevant at distance - even if the reticle obscures the target itself during aiming. Maybe the best answer is a big freakin' chevron?

I'm not sure how big you think the triangle should be? But Trijicon has a 13moa one. And when I say I've tested all the RMR's, I have tested every single sight variation of them. And this one sucks too. Now it may matter a little bit what you want to do with the dot, as If I was shooting bullseye type shooting I might actually like the 1moa RMR. But if what you are doing is some approximation of defensive shooting (IDPA, SC, USPSA) the triangle sucks. It takes way too long to get the top of the triangle aligned to the target when you need accuracy and its too big for real speed with accuracy at moderate distances. FWIW>

I was thinking in a slightly different direction - make the triangle big enough to pick up quickly at short range (the center of a triangle = the center of a dot = the assumed point of impact), and then use the top point of the triangle as an aiming point at distance (when, I presume, speed is at least marginally less of an issue) even if the body of the triangle obscures some portion of the target.

Maybe, but what distances are we trying to achieve good hits? I shoot normally (and competitively) out to 25y. The best scoring across multiple different disciplines takes hits inside about 8". The problem with an RMR07 is that it covers too much of that, and with a RMR06 you can just center the dot and get good hits while seeing the target. A 3moa triangle might well be a good item as you can then use it as a dot and try to use the point for aiming at distance. But it would have to be some serious distance for that to be worthwhile. Its really hard (based solely on me) to use the top of the triangle as it takes lots of time to get that all organized. While sometimes there are longer shots needed than 25y in matches, I never really consider them serious in terms of building skills for defensive use. FWIW.

I have just started to make my way down the rabbit hole of pistol red dot sights so I do not have huge amount of time behind them as of yet. I started off watching all the YouTube vids that I could. Sage Dynamics, Sentinel Concepts, The Humble Marksman etc.

They all pretty much agree that there is a learning curve starting out and that larger dots 3-6 MOA with larger windows are be beneficial.

I bought the Trijicon SRO 5MOA and have it on a CZ P10F that I shot my first match with last week and was very happy with the results. I also just bout a RMR2 3.25 MOA that will be going on a P10 C soon.

They also say that to get the most out of the system the correct method is not to focus on the dot but instead your focus should be on the target. This is one of the advantages with dots is that you do not have to keep changing from target to rear sight to front sight.

Look at the target. Put the dot on the target. Pull the trigger.

^^^ Oh, I don't doubt there's a learning curve involved. With the price of RMRs, though, I'm tempted to just go straight to the 3.25MOA reticle even if it makes the learning curve a little steeper.

quote:

FWIW.

I hear you. I think part of my problem is that I'm looking for a 3- or 2 MOA triangle, and no one makes any such beast.

Saw your comment on the other thread about Bobro - I'm thinking one of those, a new front sight and a 3.25MOA RMR sounds just about right.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

quote:

Originally posted by YVK:
A little factoid: Leupold, who has been in this dot thing longer than most and has one of the best / brightest 2.5 MOA circle dots on the market (I am referring to the actual dot), is testing out a 6 MOA circle dot, as in getting feedback from users.

I'm speculating, here, but I'd be surprised if a shift to larger reticles didn't also involve a shift away from dots towards something like triangles. The center of a triangle is the same as the center of a round dot for purposes of close-up shooting, and some projection (like the top of a triangle, for instance) can give the reticle user the option of having a precise aiming point should that be relevant at distance - even if the reticle obscures the target itself during aiming.

Actually Leupold has offered a 7.5 MOA triangle for as long as it has offered a 2.5 MOA circle, and this notion of using the whole triangle for upclose and personal and the tip for precise and long distance has been floated for some time. In practice it doesn't work that great.

The reality is this: no matter what our eyes tell us, a 6 MOA circle covers 1.5 inches at 25 yards. It may look like more but math doesn't lie. Somebody may prefer to have a 3 min dot (that subtends 0.75 inches at 25) but you don't really need one for precision shooting. As long as I don't screw up the trigger press, I hit upper A zone consistently at 25 yards with my 5 MOA dots, and I ain't a bullseye shooter.

This is the case where theoretic considerations and personal visual preferences aren't necessarily supported by results.