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Picture of huskerlrrp
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The heavier frame module has me interested. A "challenge" coin and exclusive case turns me off. I'm sure it's attractive to some customers. Look forward to seeing these in the wild.


 
Posts: 1631 | Location: North Cackalacky | Registered: September 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of jljones
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quote:
Originally posted by YVK:
I remember vaguely that original X5 had something called a pretensioned barrel, although I never understood what it meant. There's no mentioning of that in the Legion's description. Was that some sort of gimmick that SIG has dropped, or is it still a thing?


Pretensioned barrels were actually a thing. And it gave the best possible accuracy you could expect out of a plastic gun. SIG started using it in the Army trials to crush the accuracy standards.

But, what they found in the ICE trials was that the pretensioning made very little difference in what they were getting out of standard barrels. Given the extra cost, it made sense to ditch it. Last I heard, the only gun that was "pretensioned" in 2019 was the X5. That may have already changed as well.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 32769 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
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A plastic gun that weighs more than a 226 Stainless Elite? I don't get it. Why so heavy, did they purposely add weights in the frame or something? I don't think them lightening cuts are working right.



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 14017 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nice competition and range pistol. This is not for me.
 
Posts: 664 | Location: Gatesville, TX | Registered: January 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
A plastic gun that weighs more than a 226 Stainless Elite? I don't get it. Why so heavy, did they purposely add weights in the frame or something? I don't think them lightening cuts are working right.


A weight is installed in the frame, and is available for all the x-frames.
 
Posts: 3581 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by YVK:
I remember vaguely that original X5 had something called a pretensioned barrel, although I never understood what it meant. There's no mentioning of that in the Legion's description. Was that some sort of gimmick that SIG has dropped, or is it still a thing?


Pretensioned barrels were actually a thing. And it gave the best possible accuracy you could expect out of a plastic gun. SIG started using it in the Army trials to crush the accuracy standards.

But, what they found in the ICE trials was that the pretensioning made very little difference in what they were getting out of standard barrels. Given the extra cost, it made sense to ditch it. Last I heard, the only gun that was "pretensioned" in 2019 was the X5. That may have already changed as well.


What did it actually mean mechanically and visually? Say I pick up an older X5 vs any other SIG or newer X5, what do I look for or feel for to say it has a pre-tensioned barrel?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: YVK,
 
Posts: 296 | Registered: April 03, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think the whole Legion thing is silly.

For that matter, I kept reading X5 this and X5 that but they were showing pictures of striker fired plastic pistols instead of real L1s.

But there is a lot of cosmetic frou frou on guns that I just don't see the point of.
 
Posts: 2772 | Location: Florence, Alabama, USA | Registered: July 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of tcba_joe
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quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
A plastic gun that weighs more than a 226 Stainless Elite? I don't get it. Why so heavy, did they purposely add weights in the frame or something? I don't think them lightening cuts are working right.

Lightening cuts aren't really a benefit for overall gun weight, but for slide cycling performance. Lighter slides cycles faster with less reciprocating mass. At least when done properly.

This is a competition gun. Not a carry gun; you WANT the gun to weigh as much as possible/legally allowable. Heavy frame with light fast slide means more controlable gun.

As for the frame, over on ARFCOM is been pointed out that it's not a plastic frame with weights glued inside. They added tungsten powder to the plastic to add the requisite weight without having to machine an expensive complicated steel frame module.

I'd assume that the half ounce over could be fixed by removing the magwell, although I'm ignorant of the various rules for each competition. It looks (to me) they did what Walther did by trying to create a gun that fits as many competition classes as possible.
 
Posts: 191 | Registered: August 02, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by tcba_joe:
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
A plastic gun that weighs more than a 226 Stainless Elite? I don't get it. Why so heavy, did they purposely add weights in the frame or something? I don't think them lightening cuts are working right.

Lightening cuts aren't really a benefit for overall gun weight, but for slide cycling performance. Lighter slides cycles faster with less reciprocating mass. At least when done properly.

This is a competition gun. Not a carry gun; you WANT the gun to weigh as much as possible/legally allowable. Heavy frame with light fast slide means more controlable gun.

As for the frame, over on ARFCOM is been pointed out that it's not a plastic frame with weights glued inside. They added tungsten powder to the plastic to add the requisite weight without having to machine an expensive complicated steel frame module.

I'd assume that the half ounce over could be fixed by removing the magwell, although I'm ignorant of the various rules for each competition. It looks (to me) they did what Walther did by trying to create a gun that fits as many competition classes as possible.


Even stupidier that they integrated into the composite. Why make a competition gun too heavy to use in IDPA competition? I don't shoot IDPA do you have to remove the magwell to shoot in that competition?



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 14017 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Carry Optics is one of the fastest growing divisions in USPSA, and the X5 320 is one of the most popular CO choices. CO has a 45 ounce weight limit including optic and magazine, and after market vendors were selling $400+ weighted grip modules, with $200 plus tungsten grip weights, to bring the X5 to the weight limit. This explains it pretty well:

http://www.shootingsportsinnov...X5-Tungsten-Grip.htm

A buddy of mine, who shoots an X5 in CO says he is nearly $2,000 per pistol, between optic, grip module, tungsten weight and trigger. At sub $1,000 the Legion is a tremendous value, and will only make the 320 X5 even more popular in CO. A CZ has weight and a great trigger, but the X5 Legion is very competitive between weight and a GGI trigger. Between the MPX for PCC and the 320 X5, Sig is heavily catering to USPSA.
 
Posts: 119 | Registered: September 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by tcba_joe:
As for the frame, over on ARFCOM is been pointed out that it's not a plastic frame with weights glued inside. They added tungsten powder to the plastic to add the requisite weight without having to machine an expensive complicated steel frame module.


That is fascinating, and very innovative. Weighted metal powder integrated as part of a plastic matrix, for weight. I wonder what impact that has on strength and cracking potential.

That's far removed from the added weight put in the x-frame as a module.
 
Posts: 3581 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by tcba_joe:
As for the frame, over on ARFCOM is been pointed out that it's not a plastic frame with weights glued inside. They added tungsten powder to the plastic to add the requisite weight without having to machine an expensive complicated steel frame module.


That is fascinating, and very innovative. Weighted metal powder integrated as part of a plastic matrix, for weight. I wonder what impact that has on strength and cracking potential.

That's far removed from the added weight put in the x-frame as a module.


Another advantage of this process, is it distributes the weight throughout the grip module, including in the dust cover, rather than concentrate it back in the grip.
 
Posts: 119 | Registered: September 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
quote:
Originally posted by tcba_joe:
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
A plastic gun that weighs more than a 226 Stainless Elite? I don't get it. Why so heavy, did they purposely add weights in the frame or something? I don't think them lightening cuts are working right.

Lightening cuts aren't really a benefit for overall gun weight, but for slide cycling performance. Lighter slides cycles faster with less reciprocating mass. At least when done properly.

This is a competition gun. Not a carry gun; you WANT the gun to weigh as much as possible/legally allowable. Heavy frame with light fast slide means more controlable gun.

As for the frame, over on ARFCOM is been pointed out that it's not a plastic frame with weights glued inside. They added tungsten powder to the plastic to add the requisite weight without having to machine an expensive complicated steel frame module.

I'd assume that the half ounce over could be fixed by removing the magwell, although I'm ignorant of the various rules for each competition. It looks (to me) they did what Walther did by trying to create a gun that fits as many competition classes as possible.


Even stupidier that they integrated into the composite. Why make a competition gun too heavy to use in IDPA competition? I don't shoot IDPA do you have to remove the magwell to shoot in that competition?


No magwell in SSP. Even if not shooting CO, that gun is made to fit the rules of SSP in IDPA and Production in USPSA beautifully. I'm getting one for that reason. It's actually something of a bargain in terms of a competition gun IMHO. Though at the end of the day, it's not taking any of us from B class/Marksman to master/GM as it's still the indian, not the arrow.
 
Posts: 18 | Location: Portland, OR | Registered: April 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of The_Watcher
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Weight listed has to be with mag well, since it is attached to the gun. This is worth every penny. Some really good comp options in the last 1.5 years-
Shadow 2
92X
X5
X5 Legion
Q5 Steel

WOW!
 
Posts: 177 | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of henryaz
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake207:
Why have it come in at 43.5oz?

If they'd shaved off half an ounce, then it's IDPA legal.

IDPA is 43oz with an empty mag inserted, so they'd have to get the gun down in the neighborhood of 41oz.



all your sig are belong to us
 
Posts: 8785 | Location: South Congress AZ | Registered: May 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Personally, I was pretty happy to hear about this. I really enjoy competing with my 320 X5 as well as my Shadow 2. Was very interested in the Q5 SF but now I will probably pass on that and wait and see how this feels. As for the Legion finish. I don't know how much luck plays into it but I have Legions dating back to the first year (a 226 DA/SA) all the way up to a newly purchased 938 Legion and all have held up extremely well. So I wouldn't hesitate adding this one it if suits my needs.
 
Posts: 10 | Location: Florida Space Coast | Registered: August 01, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I may be looking at an older version or the rulebook, but IDPA Carry Optics Division HERE the max weight is 45oz.

Even so, 43.5oz would include the magazine, detachable magwell, and included grip weight insert (same one found on the original X5). There should be no issues getting to the correct weight, including the 43oz for SSP and ESP.

We will be releasing a detailed product video very soon at www.sigsauer.com.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Phil Strader,
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: November 15, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Phil Strader:
I may be looking at an older version or the rulebook, but IDPA Carry Optics Division HERE the max weight is 45oz.

Even so, 43.5oz would include the magazine, detachable magwell, and included grip weight insert (same one found on the original X5). There should be no issues getting to the correct weight, including the 43oz for SSP and ESP.

We will be releasing a detailed product video very soon at www.sigsauer.com.


Thanks for weighting in, Phil!

IDPA ESP would let me run the magwell, but I’d have to take the grip weight out to get under 43 oz. But the gun has the flexibility to add and removed based on sport and division - clever!


Bob
-----
Midway, GA
9mm: Beretta M9A1, 92 Elite LTT, 92 Compact L, Px4 Compact Carry LTT, Wilson Combat Centurion Tactical, SIG P320-M17
.45 ACP: Wilson Combat 1911 CQB, Colt 1911 Lightweight Commander
5.56mm: BCM 16" REECE
Confederate Civil War reproductions: 1863 Richmond rifle, Spiller and Burr revolver
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: March 29, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of dgrdvm
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Hmmmm. I guess I should have waited. Looks like what I built. X5 with a Burke trigger, Springer guide rod, heavy SSI grip, 6 moa Romeo1 and plus 1 aluminum bade pads. I will vouch this set up works.


There are none so blind as those who will not see
 
Posts: 435 | Location: St Louis | Registered: June 23, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of motorheadjohn
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
They are gunning for the Q5. The weight will make it a great competition pistol.


Jerry, I remember Bruce saying that (heavy) stainless steel guns weren't optimal for competition because of slower transition. Is that still the thinking?

I have shot my stainless P226 but seem to do as well or better with my standard P226. It's home to me.

I'm enjoying my new X5 and shooting it fairly well in competition, too. I'm thinking I want another as a backup, but NOT the new fugly coyote color. The grey of this new Legion looks good but not sure I want the extra weight.
 
Posts: 951 | Location: Yorktown, VA | Registered: October 01, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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