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Please explain difference between DAO and DAK?

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September 04, 2019, 01:59 PM
pulicords
Please explain difference between DAO and DAK?
So many variations on the concept of "DAO"! I've dry-fired P239s with the DAK trigger, but found the P250 and LEM version of the H&K (USP) trigger system to be more to my liking. I recognize the the H&K system is a "staged" DAO, but to most of those who shoot them, it seems that "DAO" is just "DAO".


"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
September 04, 2019, 02:30 PM
sigfreund
quote:
Originally posted by gc70:
From its short reset point, the DAK trigger is akin to the DA or DAO triggers more commonly encountered on other pistols.


I would agree with “akin.” The short DAK reset trigger pull weights I have measured have mostly run from 8.5 to 9 pounds, although a few exceed that. The double action pull weights of the DA/SA guns I’ve measured have been from about 9.5 pounds to 11+. The out of the box pull weight of my P250 was 6 pounds, 6 ounces. After about 500 pulls the weight had dropped to 5 pounds, 12 ounces. Because I had an occasional misfire with that gun, it’s another I added a spacer to increase the mainspring compression. The last time I measured the pull weight it was 6 pounds.

I am not familiar with any other DAO guns except an S&W model 5946, and its pull weight is 7 pounds, 12 ounces.




“One of the great ironies of our age is that we have somehow managed to become far more sanctimonious than previous generations—and yet far more immoral by traditional standards as well. We can obsess over an unartful presidential comment, but snore through the systematic destruction of the manufacturing basis of an entire state or ignore warlike violence on the streets of Chicago.”
— Victor Davis Hanson, The Case for Trump 274
September 04, 2019, 02:31 PM
sigfreund
quote:
Originally posted by pulicords:
So many variations on the concept of "DAO"!


Not to mention the Glock. Wink




“One of the great ironies of our age is that we have somehow managed to become far more sanctimonious than previous generations—and yet far more immoral by traditional standards as well. We can obsess over an unartful presidential comment, but snore through the systematic destruction of the manufacturing basis of an entire state or ignore warlike violence on the streets of Chicago.”
— Victor Davis Hanson, The Case for Trump 274
September 04, 2019, 04:02 PM
pulicords
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by pulicords:
So many variations on the concept of "DAO"!


Not to mention the Glock. Wink


I was thinking of that, the Walther P99, and just about every other striker fired pistol too! Wink


"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
September 05, 2019, 10:00 AM
Pizza Bob
Lot's of good and correct answers her, but a lot of technical info that, while germane, may be a little hard to understand so here is the explanation I always used when asked:

DAK stands for Double Action Kellerman, after the man that invented the system. The whole point of DAK is that there are two different trigger reset points - thus two different lengths of pull. It takes a lot of practice to get acclimated to the trigger and being able to feel the reset points and make a conscious decision as to which to use, especially under stress. I've spoken with the firearms trainer of the Phila DA's office (they are equipped withP229's with the DAK system) and he told me that, once acclimated, it is just a matter of muscle memory.

So, why two different reset points and what's the advantage? If you are close-up and personal and rate (quantity) of fire is the primary concern, as opposed to accuracy (quality), you use the shorter reset point - less distance to cycle the trigger = faster rate of fire. Downside of that position is that with the shorter reset, you have less leverage on the trigger linkage so your weight of pull is higher.

For aimed accurate/non-hurried fire, use the longer reset and you get a lighter pull (longer reset = more leverage, less weight). There is approximately 1.5# - 2# difference in the weight of pull between the two reset points. In a stressful situation, you probably won't notice the difference.

The hammer always works from the partially cocked (hammer intercept notch) position, except in the case of a misfire, where the hammer will be all the way down, since the slide didn't cycle.

You can demonstrate the two different reset points with an empty gun. Pull the trigger (after checking to make sure that it is unloaded, of course) and hold the trigger to the rear of the trigger guard. Cycle the slide manually, with the other hand, and then slowly release the trigger. You will hear a distinct click at the first reset point. If you continue to release the trigger, you will hear a click for the second reset. Repeat the exercise, but don't go to the second reset, just pull the trigger again after the first reset point is heard/felt. Repeat but let it go to the second before pulling again (don't forget you have to manually cycle the slide between trigger pulls) - now you have felt the difference in the trigger pulls caused by the DAK system.

HTH

Adios,

Pizza Bob


NRA Benefactor Member
September 07, 2019, 12:47 PM
walker77
I really like the DAK trigger. And you can usually pick up used DAK guns dirt cheap!
September 08, 2019, 08:09 AM
officerdave
tried the DAK but could not get used to it. Had my duty gun set back to DA/SA with work by Robert Burke. The DA to SA transition is not as noticeable as stock. I did run a DAO 226 for a while, but never shot it well.
September 12, 2019, 07:09 AM
RichardC
Is there a Short Reach Trigger available for P226 DAK?


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September 12, 2019, 07:23 AM
Bulldog7972
quote:
Originally posted by walker77:
I really like the DAK trigger. And you can usually pick up used DAK guns dirt cheap!


Where? I'm looking for a non-rail 9mm 226 and can't find one anywhere. Don't want a 40.
September 12, 2019, 08:44 AM
sigfreund
quote:
Originally posted by RichardC:
Is there a Short Reach Trigger available for P226 DAK?


Factory triggers for Classic line SIG pistols are the same whether they are DA/SA, DAO, or DAK. It is the hammers and other parts of the mechanism that differ among the systems. (Triggers do of course differ among models, but not whether they are DAK or something else.)

An exception to one trigger fits all are certain aftermarket offerings that usually have some sort of overtravel adjustment. As I recall, Grayguns’ triggers won’t work in DAK pistols, and I had to modify the ones I got from Armory Craft to make them work.




“One of the great ironies of our age is that we have somehow managed to become far more sanctimonious than previous generations—and yet far more immoral by traditional standards as well. We can obsess over an unartful presidential comment, but snore through the systematic destruction of the manufacturing basis of an entire state or ignore warlike violence on the streets of Chicago.”
— Victor Davis Hanson, The Case for Trump 274
September 12, 2019, 06:03 PM
RichardC
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by RichardC:
Is there a Short Reach Trigger available for P226 DAK?


Factory triggers for Classic line SIG pistols are the same whether they are DA/SA, DAO, or DAK. It is the hammers and other parts of the mechanism that differ among the systems. (Triggers do of course differ among models, but not whether they are DAK or something else.)

An exception to one trigger fits all are certain aftermarket offerings that usually have some sort of overtravel adjustment. As I recall, Grayguns’ triggers won’t work in DAK pistols, and I had to modify the ones I got from Armory Craft to make them work.


Thanks, sigfreund.


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September 12, 2019, 06:19 PM
sourdough44
DAK, sounds similar to ‘Lite LEM’ from H&K??
September 18, 2019, 10:01 AM
RichardC
E2 style grips for the LEO trade-in 357 Sig P226R DAK seem to be unavailable, new or used.



Any other suggestions for slimmer grips for short-fingered fellows?


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September 18, 2019, 11:22 AM
sigfreund
quote:
Originally posted by RichardC:
E2 style grips for the LEO trade-in 357 Sig P226R DAK seem to be unavailable, new or used.


Numrich seems to have them:
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1686710

As does Top Gun Supply if you need the kit:
https://www.topgunsupply.com/s...ip-kit-p226-dak.html

Or do I misunderstand something?




“One of the great ironies of our age is that we have somehow managed to become far more sanctimonious than previous generations—and yet far more immoral by traditional standards as well. We can obsess over an unartful presidential comment, but snore through the systematic destruction of the manufacturing basis of an entire state or ignore warlike violence on the streets of Chicago.”
— Victor Davis Hanson, The Case for Trump 274
September 18, 2019, 01:13 PM
RichardC
Thanks!

I swear TopGunSupply was out of stock just two days ago. They shipped me my extra magazine order faster than the distributor shipped my pistol. Smile

My netsearch failed to turn up the gunpartscorp site.

Edit: I DO need the kit, and TopGunSupply quickly helped me solve my online ordering problem. Was my error..

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RichardC,


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