quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I know what you mean. I fired one for the first time under cober of darkness. The moon deflated and fizzled, and the sun was too ashamed to show for two days. When I drew the courage to open one eye, it was brighter than noon, and a forest was gone. I never felt a thing.

Amazing! Y'know, I hear when Chuck Norris sneezes, 125 gr. Gold Dot .357 Sig rounds come out his nose. I usually don't believe in such urban legend nonsense, at least not until I found out that Federal field tested the first .357 Sig hollow point round on June 15, 1991 in the Philippines, someplace called Mount Pinatubo. Well, I guess we all know how that went...

I carry 357 Sig because both VA and NC state troopers carry the round. Both with Sigs, VA 229 and NC 226.

I figure it would be one less thing a zealous, anti gun prosecutor could go after if, God forbid, I ever had to use one.

Spear Gold Dot 125 gr JHP.

quote:

Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
I am not sure, but I think the 357 Sig is probably the son of the mighty 10mm. 357 Sig fell from his lofty home, and has been trying to live up to his father's expectations all his life.

Actually a necked down 40 case.

When you throw your 357 Sig pistol, it obliterates your enemy, then majestically arcs back into your waiting hand.

The lineage of the 357 Sig I spoke of is not related to the parent cartridge. Clearly the 10mm is his father, and Star Wars actually stole the line Darth Vader speaks to Luke from a transcript of a family counseling session revealed by a therapist who worked with George Lucas.

My P229 has both .40 and 357 SIG barrels. I carry it in 357 SIG loaded with Underwood 125 grain Gold Dot ammo, and have total faith in it to protect me/mine. I keep the .40 barrel around mostly for variety and cheap plinking although I haven't a doubt in my mind that the .40 is up to the job as well.

I prefer the recoil impulse of the 357, and shoot it very well. I find the recoil of the round in my P229 to be very manageable.

An instructor at a course I attended last fall is a US Air Marshall. His duty weapon is .357 Sig, and he had a sidearm in that chambering at the course, though he didn't shoot it much. It was clear he was very proficient with it.

We had a talk about his personal carry choice, and he sticks with 9X19, noting that "if it's good enough for the FBI, it's good enough for me."

The range-training ammunition he had was a frangible, sintered .357 Sig. I asked about its ability to fragment in various media, including wallboard. Zero fragmentation, he said. In fact, he said the sintered rounds were cutting holes in steel target supports at their training center. He noted that they do have considerably more damage to training equipment from .357 Sig strikes than other service chambering, which I thought quite interesting.

The .357 Sig does not have increased recoil above .40 s&w. Recoil will be elevated above 9X19. Report, overpressure, muzzle blast, noise, etc, will be greater with .357 Sig, but if the question is about hearing damage in a house or an enclosed space, the simple truth is that if you're firing a weapon, hearing damage is going to occur. It's also true that you're not going to be hearing much at all if you're firing under stress.

The more you shoot, the more comfortable and proficient you can become. For the same cost, you'll shoot a lot more 9X19 than you'll shoot .357 Sig. However, you can shoot a lot of .40 if you have two barrels, if you wish to shoot your .357 Sig weapon. Or you can reload, which many do anyway if they intend to shoot much.

.40 firearms have gone down considerably in popularity. .40 ammunition doesn't fly off the shelf. Used .40 firearms in particular tend to be more plentiful, less expensive, and don't move as fast. This can be an advantage to a buyer.

I'm on the road a lot right now. While I do own a large number of .40 handguns, I keep two firearms while traveling. I have with me presently a Glock 43 in 9X19, and a Glock 32 in .357 Sig. The G43 is for pocket carry and is quick to slip into place, while the G32 is for waistband carry and takes a moment longer and for my present carry, requires an untucked shirt. I'd just as soon have the G32 for it's larger grip and capacity, but the G43 is a good compromise when dress dictates. It's also lighter, flatter, and easier to conceal.

If you do some research on .357 Sig shootings, you'll find that the end-results are different than typical shootings with other service chamberings. Damage tends to be greater. An extra few hundred feet per second makes a difference. Handguns in general are weak, poor substitutes for a rifle, and most popular ammunition in 9X19, .40, and .45 does about the same thing, with the same energy, similar velocities, nearly the same terminal effects. Not so of .357 Sig.

I fully respect the opinion of the Air Marshall instructor whom I met; it comes with more than enough qualification. 9X19 is an adequate choice. I'm happier with .357 Sig.

There's nothing wrong with .40.

The goal isn't really the size or the speed, but putting the round on target. That done, choose what works best when it gets there, but make sure it gets there.

I can't say I agree with your instructor friend... I've been alive long enough and been in law enforcement long enough to know that what is good enough for the FBI isn't necessarily good enough for a typical police officer or civilian.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but I believe the FBI and their testing methodology is profoundly influenced by politics. My skepticism does not come from whether I believe the 9mm is or is not an effective carry round, my skepticism is directed at the manner in which the FBI decides to score their tests.

A football team normally wins the game 7-6 if they score a touchdown and an extra point versus an opponent that only kicks two field goals. But when someone suddenly comes in and says field goals are now worth 5 Points, it changes the game.

Call me an old stick-in-the-mud, but I don't trust the way the FBI is scoring their field goals...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TexasRaider,

I agree with what others have said. 357SIG shoots flat and fast. I use it, 9mm, and 10mm auto in handguns. Surprisingly, 357SIG is also a hit among some shooters who have found themselves recoil sensitive.

quote:

Originally posted by TexasRaider:
I can't say I agree with your instructor friend... I've been alive long enough and been in law enforcement long enough to know that what is good enough for the FBI isn't necessarily good enough for a typical police officer or civilian.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but I believe the FBI and their testing methodology is profoundly influenced by politics. My skepticism does not come from whether I believe the 9mm is or is not an effective carry round, my skepticism is directed at the manner in which the FBI decides to score their tests.

A football team normally wins the game 7-6 if they score a touchdown and an extra point versus an opponent that only kicks two field goals. But when someone suddenly comes in and says field goals are now worth 5 Points, it changes the game.

Call me an old stick-in-the-mud, but I don't trust the way the FBI is scoring their field goals...

I couldn't give a damn about the FBI testing protocols, nor are they relevant to this thread (in which a poster wants to know whether he should go with .40 or .357). The point of the example previously given was a federal law enforcement training officer (and competitor) saw fit to choose 9mm for his personal carry, despite a nearly unlimited supply of .357 Sig. Should you or I do the same? Who cares.

The point was the discussion in which he pointed out the notable differences with .357 Sig in his training arena, including damage to steel targets and support structures...which would not have occurred with 9X19, .40, or .45 acp.

I picked up a few more boxes of carry ammunition today. For the .357 Sig, I picked up Sig V-crown; middle of the road, fairly milk-toast stuff, a bit over 500 ft/lbs muzzle energy. It's not fancy, but a substantial increase over even +P 9mm, or .40 loadings. It's fast, flat, and out of the G32, feeds very, very reliably, as .357 Sig tends to do. It's a wedge shaped cartridge that is conducive to feeding, and has the best supported chamber of any of the Glock barrels.

There's no question that 9X19 will be shot faster with shorter split times for many shooters, and 9X19 has the potential for higher capacity, being a smaller cartridge. 9X19 will be shot faster than .40, too.

For the original poster, there's nothing wrong with going with .40. It will serve you just fine. So will .357 Sig, and of course, you can shoot both from the same weapon with a barrel swap. Best of both.

My P229 and P239 have all three barrels.

I have thought about it often what one to carry.

Right now I mostly carry the 9mm.

If I was thinking I would have to shoot through things I would use the 357sig.

I am not a LEO, I have never pulled my weapon.

I am thinking that over penetration would be more of a problem than stopping a threat.

A few 9mm properly placed should do the job I am hopping.

When I practice with 357sig at the range the first few shots does turn heads.

One thing not mentioned is that the idea behind the 357 Sig was to duplicate the stopping power of the 357 Mag in a semi-auto.

The 40 S&W would be fine for home defense. The ammo is also getting pretty cheap to buy, especially online. I would shot a couple of boxes at least once a month. The difference between 125 gr .357 and 165 grain HST is nil when it comes to putting 2 in the Chest of someone that kicked in your door.

The .357 SIG has excellent barrier penetration and flat ballistics t the range. Neither of which matter shooting a thug across your living room.

Buy the .40 and when you can switch it over to .357. This gives you have more ammo options and can reduce the costs of training with it over the years (due to ammo availability/costs).

I purchased mine in .40 as my duty gun was a .40 at the time and had access to that ammo. When I retired, I switched it over to the .357 and love the "crispness" of shooting that round as well as the performance of that round.

My old agency switched from 9mm to the .357 round for SWAT years ago. The steel targets they had been shooting for MANY years with 9mm had to be replaced within a year after switching to the harder hitting .357 round.

Unfortunately, I've also been involved in a few shootings. I was very pleased with the performance of the 9mm duty round (147 grain hydra shock) on the intended target. I've been less than pleased with the performance of the .40 round on the intended target (180 grain golden saber for one shooting and 155 grain duty rounds for another) My field experiences made the choice for my everyday carry very easy - .357 P239.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted H.:
One thing not mentioned is that the idea behind the 357 Sig was to duplicate the stopping power of the 357 Mag in a semi-auto.

.357 Sig touches just on the bottom end of .357 Magnum, but doesn't achieve the same thing.

It's competitive with .38 Super at mid levels.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by Ted H.:
One thing not mentioned is that the idea behind the 357 Sig was to duplicate the stopping power of the 357 Mag in a semi-auto.

.357 Sig touches just on the bottom end of .357 Magnum, but doesn't achieve the same thing.

It's competitive with .38 Super at mid levels.

The SIG round is a lot closer than that. Most of the major brand ammo is pushing 1350-1400FPS with a 125g bullet out of a 4" barrel. That's right at, or above, what the same brands of ammo do out of a 4" 357 Magnum revolver with the same weight bullet.
The Magnum outperforms the SIG when using heavier bullets. But it's right there when both are using 125's.

This is just my opinion, I'm sure there of plenty of other opinions by better informed people. My agency carried the P229 in 357 Sig for twelve years. Two shootings I witnessed with 125 Gold dot and Ranger, nothing special performance wise. I find that the 357 Sig recoils less than 40S&W but muzzle blast is significant and when we switched to 40S&W the lower end shooters did better. Also, the decibel level of 357 Sig is something like 2x greater than a 40S&W. On the indoor range, as an instructor, I developed hearing problems and headaches and went to double ear protection when using the 357 Sig. I really like the 357 sig cartridge but I no longer carry it and sold my off duty gun in that caliber. I've been told that the Air Marshalls are in the process of switching to 9mm.

Like others have mentioned, buy either one and just get a barrel for the other caliber and you'll have both.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Perry:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by Ted H.:
One thing not mentioned is that the idea behind the 357 Sig was to duplicate the stopping power of the 357 Mag in a semi-auto.

.357 Sig touches just on the bottom end of .357 Magnum, but doesn't achieve the same thing.

It's competitive with .38 Super at mid levels.

The SIG round is a lot closer than that. Most of the major brand ammo is pushing 1350-1400FPS with a 125g bullet out of a 4" barrel. That's right at, or above, what the same brands of ammo do out of a 4" 357 Magnum revolver with the same weight bullet.
The Magnum outperforms the SIG when using heavier bullets. But it's right there when both are using 125's.

Much of the major brand ammunition is relatively weak and watered down.

.357 Magnum, 4" bbl, 600 ft/lbs, and 1500 fps. Muzzle energy goes up from there.

.357 Sig, 4" bbl, 1300-1400 fps, 500-550 ft-lbs, and the increase is fairly flat.

.357 Sig doesnt have a lot of potential past touching the lower limit of .357 Magnum. The .357 Magnum, on the other hand, has much greater potential.

quote:

.357 Magnum, 4" bbl, 600 ft/lbs, and 1500 fps. Muzzle energy goes up from there.

.357 Sig, 4" bbl, 1300-1400 fps, 500-550 ft-lbs, and the increase is fairly flat.

.357 Sig doesnt have a lot of potential past touching the lower limit of .357 Magnum. The .357 Magnum, on the other hand, has much greater potential.

Sure, but lets do apples to apples again. Boutique ammo like Underwood, Doubletap, etc that load the Magnum to it's potential, also load the SIG to it's potential. They are getting the 125g 357 SIG into the 1500's also. Can the Magnum push it a little harder? Sure. And the Magnum definitely outperforms the SIG with heavier bullets. But the SIG does as it was designed to, duplicating the 125g Magnum load. And it definitely outperforms any commercial 38 Super load.

I find that the .357 Sig has recoil similar to a hot 9mm round. The fotay, though, rocks back in my hand much more, and over a long time might cause wrist damage.

However, I think a quality 9mm round would be better overall for most persons. Accuracy and speed should be somewhat higher, and you are carrying more rounds.