SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  SIG Pistols    Reliable "Combat" or "SD" Style 22 cal. LR Pistol?
Page 1 2 3 

Moderators: Chris Orndorff, LDD
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Reliable "Combat" or "SD" Style 22 cal. LR Pistol? Login/Join 
Member
Picture of Browndrake
posted Hide Post
I have a S&W 63 with a 3” barrel that I think pretty highly of. It is relatively small, rugged, reliable, and it holds 8 shots. You can shoot any type of .22 cartridge you can lay your hands on, and it is fairly accurate for what it is. If you’re talking about a combat or SD .22, then you might want to give more consideration to a revolver. Reliability is a large factor.
If you want to stick with a pistol, then like the gentlemen suggested earlier, Beretta 87.




Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong. Do everything in love.
- 1 Corinthians 16:13-14

 
Posts: 733 | Location: Southwest Michigan | Registered: March 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of grumpy1
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SSAreGreat:
quote:
Originally posted by grumpy1:
Don't know if you have seen this thread about the PPQ 22. I love my 9MM PPQ but steered clear of the PPQ 22.

https://www.waltherforums.com/...e-broken-off.114600/

The Beretta M9 22 and M9A1 22 may also be worth a look at. I have not tried one myself but seems like a lot of good reports.

https://grabagun.com/firearms/...facturer=Beretta&p=1

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SesgxB4f88I" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]


The Walter PPQ 22 is a great gun. I have 2 of them, 12,000 rounds through the 4 inch version and 2000 rounds through the 5 inch version. The failure rate is about 1 to 2%. Some people dry fire 22 caliber pistols and that will cause parts to break in any 22 caliber firearm.


Great to hear your PPQ 22s are working well for you Smile but from my reading they seem to have their share of breakages/problems while I am reading very little of that happening with the M&P 22 Compact especially considering how popular they are yet I would not rule out a PPQ 22 as IMO it is important to get a pistol that fits one well/can shoot well with and with 22 pistols most of us are not using them for SD and though very unlikely if they break it probably is not a huge deal as long as the company does a good job with service like Walther, Ruger, Glock, and Smith and Wesson. Reputation for Walther's service seems excellent. I had a problem with a back strap on my PPS and they sent me one that I got a few days later and I did not have to send the original one back to them. I would not touch a Taurus product with a ten foot pole though.

I have not used my P226 22 Conversion kit in years but today I took it out, cleaned/lubed it, and put it on mu P226 and will be trying it again very soon as it was always fun to shoot and so easy to change the slide.



“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”
― Benjamin Franklin
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."
― Margaret Thatcher
 
Posts: 9165 | Location: Northern Illinois | Registered: March 20, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SSAreGreat:
The Walter PPQ 22 is a great gun. I have 2 of them, ...

Yes, they're a great little gun--except when they're not. I'm glad for you that your PPQ 22s are working well. Just as I'm glad for me my PPS M2 is working well. (Though not as well as it had before I sent it in for the safety recall Frown.)

The problem is that some of Walther's design decisions have been questionable, their production quality somewhat variable, their QC inconsistent, and their CS less than outstanding.

So it's kind of a craps-shoot, buying a Walther. If you get a good one you're GTG. If you don't, you're somewhat screwed.

I'm not real anxious to roll the dice with Walther again.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 18686 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I love Beretta but I can't recommend the 21a Bobcat. They define quirky. And finicky. And ammo sensitive. And anything else you can think of. Shame because they could be the best pocket carry 22 of all time. I still have two and I can't really say why.
 
Posts: 2914 | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Also the CZ Kadet, is a great combat pistol .22 LR (if you can find one).
 
Posts: 20204 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
Was reading the reviews of the Browning 1911-22 Compact. Looks pretty good. Dunno about the $600 price tag, though.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 18686 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
Looks like I found a winner: Colt 1911-22

Ran across this in a LGS. Picking it up and handling it, you'd swear you were handling an honest-to-God 1911 Government--until you racked the aluminum slide, that is. Told the gun counter guy I'd need to go home and do my homework. I did and, somewhat surprisingly, this thing gets nearly universally rave reviews--both by reviewers and in 1911 forums.

So what is it?

From the Pew Pew Tactical review:
quote:

With a family tree worthy of any Daytime Soap Opera, this particular gun which is sold as a Colt 1911-22…is manufactured by Walther…which is owned by Smith & Wesson and is based off of a specialized 1911 frame designed by Umarex, which is known for Airsoft guns.

In the dog world, this would be called a “mutt.” ...

Umarex manufactures and sells a Replica Colt Government 1911 pistol that is made to shoot 9mm blanks.

... Walther then takes that gun and works it over so that it will fire .22LR. They ship it off to Colt, via Umarex who throws it into one of their branded boxes and then sends it out to distributors.

(Note: Walther in Germany is actually owned by Umarex. S&W owns the U.S. distribution channel.)

As I've noted elsewhere in this forum, Walther's production quality and QC have lately been somewhat variable, in my experience. But, as I noted: This pistol gets nearly universally rave reviews.

Example from one such review:
quote:

It took some time for the realization to filter in that the Government 1911 .22LR does function like a 1911.

More importantly, it shoots like a dream and produces excellent accuracy, seemingly with almost any ammunition. The range portion of this evaluation was nothing other than pure enjoyment. With many tests, it's a struggle to produce test groups that are representative of what we believe (sometimes for no good reason) to be the pistol's potential. That was not the case with the Colt/Umarex Government 1911 .22LR.


Even more astonishingly (from the same review):
quote:

Combining this with Umarex's statements on their web site that the lockwork is all steel, we are left with the realization that the internal parts are standard 1911 parts and can be tuned (or replaced) just like a centerfire 1911 pistol. Umarex USA informed us that the following parts are standard 1911 and can be interchanged with parts for any 1911: thumb safety; grip safety; disconnector; hammer and strut; sear; mainspring housing (and internal parts); sear spring; grips and grip screws; magazine catch; trigger; and hammer, sear and mainspring housing retainer pins.


I believe I'm going back tomorrow and buy one.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 18686 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Loswsmith:
I LOVE my S&W M&P 22c. It's about 90% smaller than a standard M&P, you can definetly feel in. BUT, mine runs like a top and is super excellent.

Surprisingly, I got to fondle one of these today. Equally surprisingly: It was not too small for my large hands. (I usually wear an XL glove.) But my large hands are large in terms of having long fingers--not so much... beefy?

Anyway, it looked and felt good, but I was not fond of the trigger. I think I've become spoiled by 1911's and my P210A Target Razz

quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
I have two Ruger MKIII 22/45s......

Got to fondle one of those yesterday. Surprisingly, the grip felt somewhat small in my hands. It was "ok," but, at $450, I felt not worth the price--for me, anyway.

quote:
Originally posted by AZ Jeff:
My wife has had an SR-22 for about 8 years now, and has put countless rounds of varying brands of .22LR ammo through it.

Got to fondle one of those, yesterday, as well. Grip was definitely too small for my hands. Did not like at all.

I decided not to go back for one of those Colt/Walther 1911A1's. Didn't like it that much. Another LGS had a Colt/Walther 1911 RG, but somehow a rail on a 1911 just seems wrong, so I passed.

I think what I want is a Colt/Walther 1911 Gold Cup Trophy. Nobody around here has 'em in stock. Academy has them in stock, and so does somebody at GB. But, by the time I paid the $400, plus shipping, plus FFL fee, plus tax, I'd be up to $475.

I think this idea's going back on the back burner for now.

Thanks, everybody, for your suggestions and comments.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 18686 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
$475 is far too much in my opinion for this pistol.
If you already have a 1911 you would be much better served by a marvel conversion kit and a bunch of mags and still cheaper plus much better quality and durability.
 
Posts: 2674 | Location: Finally free in AZ! | Registered: February 14, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by captain127:
$475 is far too much in my opinion for this pistol.

Agreed, which is why I'm going to put this on hold for now.

quote:
Originally posted by captain127:
If you already have a 1911 you would be much better served by a marvel conversion kit and a bunch of mags and still cheaper plus much better quality and durability.

Not interested in doing that, but thanks for the suggestion.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 18686 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
If you can find one, an older Walther PP in .22 is a reliable, accurate, sweet shooting rimfire. Very solid, and not a knock-off, clone, or mutt in any way.

My other fave is the Beretta 70S (steel frame) or 71 (aluminum frame). Definitely adult guns and very satisfying to shoot. YMMV.

HoWink
 
Posts: 129 | Location: Atlanta, GA | Registered: May 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
posted Hide Post
I know you're centered on a semiauto, but I really like my Ruger LCR .22 revolver. An extremely light, reasonably accurate and fast firing 8 shot.You can easily dump all 8 rounds center of mass at 5 yards or so in 2 seconds or less. It doesn't care what you feed it, and if you hit a bad primer you can still keep going without a pause.




"Live every day as if it's going to be your last, and one day, you'll be right.”
Malachy McCourt
 
Posts: 12028 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
If you want a combat-style .22, I suggest looking into the ones that have actually been officially adopted and used for combat:

https://www.tactical-life.com/...raeli-mossad-22-lrs/

http://shilohtv.com/?p=3574

It's worth doing a little research on Mordechai Rachamim, and what he was able to do with his .22 pistol vs. AK-wielding terrorists.

In my experience, the Beretta 71 is the most reliable .22 semi-auto pistol I have encountered (my experience being with several late 70's to early 80's vintage 71's). The sport model Colt Woodsman is close, the High Standard Model B is quite good, but the Beretta takes it.

The 71 is also the perfect size for easy concealment but accurate shooting. And they can still be found at reasonable price, due to a bunch of Israeli surplus that came in a few years ago.

My Ruger MKII is respectably reliable for a .22 semi, but it's just not in the same class with the Berettas.
 
Posts: 427 | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by metric:
If you want a combat-style .22, I suggest looking into the ones that have actually been officially adopted and used for combat:

https://www.tactical-life.com/...raeli-mossad-22-lrs/

http://shilohtv.com/?p=3574

It's worth doing a little research on Mordechai Rachamim, and what he was able to do with his .22 pistol vs. AK-wielding terrorists.

In my experience, the Beretta 71 is the most reliable .22 semi-auto pistol I have encountered (my experience being with several late 70's to early 80's vintage 71's). The sport model Colt Woodsman is close, the High Standard Model B is quite good, but the Beretta takes it.

The 71 is also the perfect size for easy concealment but accurate shooting. And they can still be found at reasonable price, due to a bunch of Israeli surplus that came in a few years ago.

My Ruger MKII is respectably reliable for a .22 semi, but it's just not in the same class with the Berettas.


Does anyone know if the Israelis worked on their Beretta 70/71's and changed out springs and other parts to make them more reliable? In addition, where the Israelis using stock ammo or did they have some special ammo made with more reliable primers? I am just curious whether they did something to enhance an extremely reliable gun or they just use stock Beretta and ammo.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Democracy is 2 Wolves & a Lamb Debating what to have for Lunch

Liberty is a Well Armed Lamb!!!
 
Posts: 717 | Registered: March 03, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SSAreGreat:

Does anyone know if the Israelis worked on their Beretta 70/71's and changed out springs and other parts to make them more reliable? In addition, where the Israelis using stock ammo or did they have some special ammo made with more reliable primers? I am just curious whether they did something to enhance an extremely reliable gun or they just use stock Beretta and ammo.


It's possible that some individual Mossad units independently tweaked their pistols and/or ammo for a very specific purpose (e.g. low noise for a particular operation -- this was dramatized in at least one movie, if that means anything), but it wouldn't have been a reasonable thing to do at scale throughout the Israeli government. They had lots of users of these things, and active Mossad ops with specialized needs would have accounted for the tiniest fraction.

In any case, I replaced the recoil springs on my own Israeli surplus 71's, mainly because I intended to shoot hyper-velocity ammo and simply wanted fresh springs for that purpose. They never skipped a beat before or after the replacement.

Also, there is plenty of high-reliability .22LR ammo to be had -- it simply costs more. The cheap bulk stuff is where the vast majority of primer duds are to be found.
 
Posts: 427 | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by metric:
If you want a combat-style .22, I suggest looking into the ones that have actually been officially adopted and used for combat:

https://www.tactical-life.com/...raeli-mossad-22-lrs/

http://shilohtv.com/?p=3574

It's worth doing a little research on Mordechai Rachamim, and what he was able to do with his .22 pistol vs. AK-wielding terrorists.

In my experience, the Beretta 71 is the most reliable .22 semi-auto pistol I have encountered (my experience being with several late 70's to early 80's vintage 71's). The sport model Colt Woodsman is close, the High Standard Model B is quite good, but the Beretta takes it.

The 71 is also the perfect size for easy concealment but accurate shooting. And they can still be found at reasonable price, due to a bunch of Israeli surplus that came in a few years ago.

My Ruger MKII is respectably reliable for a .22 semi, but it's just not in the same class with the Berettas.


I did some research online and many owners of this Beretta series state that they are very reliable and accurate pistols. It is a shame that Beretta does not currently make them.

I have one question though, am I correct in stating these pistols are not "drop safe" and have a free-floating firing pin? I do not know much about 1911s but some who own them state have stated to me that 1911s also do not have a firing pin block and thus are technically not drop safe.However, if carried in a cocked and locked, condition 1, position the gun is very safe even if dropped. I am not sure about the last part of my previous sentence. All of my firearms except for my CZ 83 are modern handguns and rifles. My AR 15s however does have a free-floating firing pin.
Thank you.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Democracy is 2 Wolves & a Lamb Debating what to have for Lunch

Liberty is a Well Armed Lamb!!!
 
Posts: 717 | Registered: March 03, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The firing pin on the Beretta 70-series is inertial and under spring tension. Not free floating like an AR, but more like a 70-series 1911.

It does not have a firing pin block safety, just like every other single-action 22 pistol that comes to mind (Ruger, Browning, S&W, Colt, etc). The firing pin block safeties are more common on double-action and striker-fired designs that have a long trigger pull to exploit for the purpose of pushing the block out of the way.
 
Posts: 427 | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by Loswsmith:
I LOVE my S&W M&P 22c. It's about 90% smaller than a standard M&P, you can definetly feel in. BUT, mine runs like a top and is super excellent.

Surprisingly, I got to fondle one of these today. Equally surprisingly: It was not too small for my large hands. (I usually wear an XL glove.) But my large hands are large in terms of having long fingers--not so much... beefy?

Anyway, it looked and felt good, but I was not fond of the trigger. I think I've become spoiled by 1911's and my P210A Target Razz


I certainly feels you there. Switching between the M&P and my S&W 41 is. . . challenging. But the M&P is my prime host for my .22 suppressor so it gets most of the trigger time. And you get used to it. Sorta. Did I mention that it runs like a top and is pleasingly accurate?


"Ultima Ratio Regum"
Life Member NRA Washington Arms Collectors
The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them.'
 
Posts: 984 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I will add these two:
  • Bersa Thunder .22 (or Firestorm .22 -- same gun, different-shaped trigger guard)
  • SIG P250 .22 -- out of production, but an awesome DAO .22 pistol, with the modularity that lets you swap grip frames with P320 Compact options.
 
Posts: 639 | Registered: December 07, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  SIG Pistols    Reliable "Combat" or "SD" Style 22 cal. LR Pistol?

© SIGforum 2020