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Picture of sigcrazy7
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
I’m Slightly amazed at the number of poor business men on this board. Or at least the number of people that want SIG to be poor business men.


I’m not seeing the posts in this thread berating Sig for dropping the 239, nor any posts advocating that production be resumed. I see people responding to the OP’s question about whether they will dump their pistols now that Sig has discontinued the firearm.. What discussion am I missing?

If there was a reason I’d want to part with my 239, that reason would have already been identified and I would have acted. Sig has nothing to do with my decision to keep my pistol, and it has nothing to do with me making a poor business decision.



Hannibal ad portas. Carthago delenda est.
 
Posts: 5682 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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jljones, not to side track, but I'd be interest to hear your reasoning that agencies that don't understand the DA/SA system issuing 239's for smaller officers. We have officers who could only manipulate the 226 if they could use the support hand or, as one described it, throwing the pistol in the strong hand to access the controls. While we tried the short or thin trigger (and/or the 228 in 9mm days), nothing seemed to work.

That said, while the officers seemed more confident in the 238, their qualification scores did not appreciably rise.
 
Posts: 12 | Registered: December 08, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
I’m Slightly amazed at the number of poor business men on this board. Or at least the number of people that want SIG to be poor business men.


I’m not seeing the posts in this thread berating Sig for dropping the 239, nor any posts advocating that production be resumed. I see people responding to the OP’s question about whether they will dump their pistols now that Sig has discontinued the firearm.. What discussion am I missing?

If there was a reason I’d want to part with my 239, that reason would have already been identified and I would have acted. Sig has nothing to do with my decision to keep my pistol, and it has nothing to do with me making a poor business decision.


^^ This

I am going to keep and cherish my classic Sigs and when Sig quits making guns I am interested in buying, I will just move on to other manufacturers. No drama or complaints to corporate. Not my job to run their business.

I suspect that Sig will continue to manufacture some of the Classic line models for a long time in the future. Similar to the S&W business model with revolvers. In fact, I would expect special runs of the P239 from time to time assuming the tooling is not completely worn out.
 
Posts: 1727 | Location: Escaped Upstate NY for Texas | Registered: April 08, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of jljones
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quote:
Originally posted by Forlorn Hope:
jljones, not to side track, but I'd be interest to hear your reasoning that agencies that don't understand the DA/SA system issuing 239's for smaller officers. We have officers who could only manipulate the 226 if they could use the support hand or, as one described it, throwing the pistol in the strong hand to access the controls. While we tried the short or thin trigger (and/or the 228 in 9mm days), nothing seemed to work.

That said, while the officers seemed more confident in the 238, their qualification scores did not appreciably rise.


Sure thing, man. Agencies generally want to set their guns (and training) to have a pistol that the lowest common denominator employee can hold at arms length and Whack! through that first shot. Most all of their training programs are based on the Whack! concept. Align the sights, shout commands, and Whack! Oh shit, the guy is going to shoot me, draw gun, align the sights, Whack! Put the gun in one hand? The process gets much harder. So the answer naturally becomes, let’s pretend to make concessions by getting a smaller gun instead of seeking out how to run the DA/SA guns like the few high speed agencies that still have them do. Administrators see that sort of stuff as voodoo and scary. I know a girl that is tiny. She can shoot a near stock P226 because she can process and run the gun. She uses smaller grips only. The FAMS no longer issue the 239. They just train all employees to run the P229, instead of trying to fix a software problem with hardware. Especially a hardware solution that is much harder to shoot fast and accurate.

Can I hold the gun at arms length and Whack! through a DA shot with some degree of accuracy? You bet. Yesterday, while teaching a class at the SSA, HR Hawk and I were at about 22 yards and I was banging a 8 inch plate with the Whack! Style of trigger control. But, I got to that point by shooting proactively and using leverage to my advantage.

Hope this helps,

Jones


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"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 32001 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm not about to dump my P239. It's not my nature to sell any gun. If, for any reason I stop liking it, I tend to clean and lube them and just put them aside. The P239 is my main carry pistol so I plan on sticking with it. My only concern is getting it serviced. I'm in the habit of sending my Sigs back to NH every 5,000 rounds or so for the full service. I haven't called Sig to see if that is no longer available for the P239. If that is the case I'm not sure what my other options are or what I will do. Piss me off, it will, no doubt.
 
Posts: 2764 | Registered: August 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Jones, not trying to refute you, but shouldn't an officer with small hands do better with a pistol that allows a better grip on the weapon and better access to the magazine release and decocker? None of this sample of three seemed comfortable with the grip and controls of the 226 .40. This was prior to the E2 grips. As I said, none improved their Q score significantly which befuddled me. Thanks.
 
Posts: 12 | Registered: December 08, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of jljones
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quote:
Originally posted by Forlorn Hope:
Jones, not trying to refute you, but shouldn't an officer with small hands do better with a pistol that allows a better grip on the weapon and better access to the magazine release and decocker? None of this sample of three seemed comfortable with the grip and controls of the 226 .40. This was prior to the E2 grips. As I said, none improved their Q score significantly which befuddled me. Thanks.


Giving the shooter a gun that is harder to shoot is not doing them a favor. The 239 shares little to no parts with the others. The leverage points are all different. This differential in leverage makes the gun extremely, extremely difficult to shoot at a high level.

Having better accesss to the magazine release or decocker is also a moot point. Shooting the gun is far more important than how easy it is to without shifting their grip. There are a number of different decocking methods and magazine release manipulations for after the shots are fired.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 32001 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sad to say, I have no clue regarding the leverage points of the 239 versus the 226. I don't recall how I shot with my back-up 239 versus the 226's, 228, and 229 I carried over the years. I think I shot less well which I attributed to a single stack rather than the other pistols I carried.

While I believe the ability to decock and dump magazines are critical skills, I believe they are vastly less important than actual shooting ability,

I am surprised that the FAMS went to all 229's.I would have expected concealment a higher priority for a primarily covert agency.
 
Posts: 12 | Registered: December 08, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just yesterday I purchased my 2nd P239 SAS, this one chambered in 9mm, as opposed to my original, which is chambered in .357 SIG. Can't say enough good things about this firearm.


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“Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy’s resistance without fighting.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

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Posts: 23 | Location: Stuart, FL & Pikesville, MD | Registered: February 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of MT357Magnum
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I'm going to hold on to my 239/40 for now, It's a great pistol... But My Shield/45 is much more comfortable to carry..


Both are great pistols..
 
Posts: 2578 | Location: Mich | Registered: September 17, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 00464b
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I just bought mine about 2 months ago in 9mm. Put a set of Houge grips on it and now fits my hand perfect. Smooth shooter. It's currently in my CCW rotation with my M11A1 and a P290Rs.
 
Posts: 405 | Location: SE Wisconsin | Registered: July 31, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have one in 357 with a spare barrel in 40. Would like one in 9MM but the lack of support from Sig and mag cost/availability is holding me back.
 
Posts: 19 | Registered: July 23, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm keeping mine. I almost never carry it but I do really like it and have a bunch of spare mags so it will stay in the safe, along with my Mk25 which I also never carry.
 
Posts: 2543 | Location: Southeast Virginia | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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