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So I took a couple Glocks to the range today and got to thinking, why the G17 vs G19 for LEO? Login/Join 
Free men do not ask
permission to bear arms
Picture of George43
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quote:
Originally posted by rockchalk06:
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
There's a lot to be said for a full grip.


Exactly!

quote:
Originally posted by cslinger:
I guess for me the G19 is a full grip. Makes perfect sense though for men with well actual man hands. I’m gonna go sob quietly now. Frown


Full grip for some. We have several officers that hold a Glock 19, like most of us hold a Glock 26 with flush fit base plate.


I carry a G23 with a G22 with the Magazine filler thingy. Why not a G19 with a G17 mag?




A gun in the hand is worth more than ten policemen on the phone.
The American Revolution was carried out by a group of gun toting religious zealots.
 
Posts: 3276 | Location: Spring, Texas | Registered: June 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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Why mess around with that for a duty gun, though? Just as strong argument to ask “why not a G17 with G17 mags and +2’s?” If it’s on a Bat belt, what are you gaining with the shorter grip with a longer mag and an X-carry or the like? No advantage I can think of there.
 
Posts: 9721 | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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NYPD agrees with you. G19s for everyone.

Not that they can hit anything with them but that's a training issue.

Bruce




"I cannot spare this man. He fights!"
-Abraham Lincoln

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
-PJ O'Rourke
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

 
Posts: 2866 | Location: NV | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The G19 prior to Gen 4 didn’t fit me well and thus I preferred the 17. Now that the Gen 4 is out, I like the G19 enough that I finally bought one. The back strap is just enough different on the newer versions.

Now either is fine with me so I’ve made the G19 the one I carry and the G17 as a range and house gun.




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Posts: 7090 | Location: West | Registered: November 26, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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quote:
Originally posted by RNshooter:
NYPD agrees with you. G19s for everyone.

Not that they can hit anything with them but that's a training issue.


Mainly a "mandatory 12 pound trigger" issue.
 
Posts: 21630 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by RNshooter:
NYPD agrees with you. G19s for everyone.

Not that they can hit anything with them but that's a training issue.


Mainly a "mandatory 12 pound trigger" issue.


8 lbs.
5.5 lbs, if you use a -connector.

Nope, they just suck, as marksmen.

Bruce




"I cannot spare this man. He fights!"
-Abraham Lincoln

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
-PJ O'Rourke
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

 
Posts: 2866 | Location: NV | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RNshooter:
NYPD agrees with you. G19s for everyone.

Not that they can hit anything with them but that's a training issue.

Bruce

Actually, NYPD authorizes both Glock 19 and Glock 17s.

Article.
Be advised, there is a lot of BS in the article, but the key point is that NYPD now authorizes the 17.
 
Posts: 4037 | Location: Where ever Uncle Sam Sends Me | Registered: March 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RNshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by RNshooter:
NYPD agrees with you. G19s for everyone.

Not that they can hit anything with them but that's a training issue.


Mainly a "mandatory 12 pound trigger" issue.


8 lbs.
5.5 lbs, if you use a -connector.

Nope, they just suck, as marksmen.

Bruce

Incorrect. NYPD uses the 12 pound a.k.a. NY2 or NY plus trigger. Their SIG 226s also have the heavy DAO trigger pull.

The trigger pull is even part of the Job standard test that new applicants must pass.

As for comments on accuracy or training I'd defer to the Rand study and I'd also recommend comparing the NYPD's stats to other LE organizations.
 
Posts: 4037 | Location: Where ever Uncle Sam Sends Me | Registered: March 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Prefontaine
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Capacity, sight radius, grip, all mentioned. But also FPS! Longer barrel means faster speed.



He possess great skills.
 
Posts: 8970 | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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We issue G22 for uniformed patrol and G23 for dicks. The City next to us issues G23 for everyone. There are issues with G23/19 for uniformed carry, mainly with level 3 holsters more grip equals better draws. With all our gear on and jackets (North East mind you) having more grip makes it easier. There have also been issues with gloves getting caught in the magwell during reloads on the compact frames. The G45 concept is a good idea with fullsize grip and compact slide with less slide to sit on and mess with the seat belt assembly.


DPR
 
Posts: 427 | Registered: March 10, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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quote:
Originally posted by 10round:
less slide to sit on and mess with the seat belt assembly.


If you have issues with your duty holster getting caught on the seat belt assembly in your vehicle, or you're having trouble accessing the release around your duty holster while buckled in, grab a 3" seat belt extender from https://www.seatbeltextenderpros.com/

It's basically a second, taller socket, that works exactly like your existing one. Since it sticks up higher, you don't have to worry about your holster getting hung up on entry, and it's faster to release on exit. Makes getting in/out the car while wearing duty gear a lot smoother/easier.



 
Posts: 21630 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I read a long time ago to carry the biggest handgun that you can shoot and carry efficiently. I took that as carrying a full size handgun in uniform, and a compact in plainclothes/undercover. For the Glock 17 and 19 comparison, I found that the 17 has an edge in many aspects, but this did not include the few that can handle the 19 better due to hand and body size. This brings up the issue of having only one option for an entire agency. It would seem that having options brings about success, such as having 17s and 19s in the armory for issue rather than just one size fits all.

For those of us that are "universal" shooters, being that we can shoot anything well, it doesn't matter. Not everyone is capable of doing that. I went from duty guns being the Beretta M9, SIG Sauer M11, Glock 22, Glock 19, to Glock 17/19 (depending on assignment), without any issues.

The 19X or G45 may be the answer for many Officers.


Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
 
Posts: 54 | Location: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: June 04, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I tend to agree with you.

G19 is pretty much the perfect size gun for 'most' people.

Big enough to feel like a 'normal size gun' with standard controls - but small enough to conceal without difficulty.

Capable of accepting full-size mags.

But you know - choices are good. However if I could only own one handgun - I would be fine with my Gen 2 G19.

--------------------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 6977 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Texaspoff
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My G45's have replaced my 19s as my duty weapons. It solved my complaint about the 19 and my complaint about the 17. What's not to like.




TXPO


Coldborecustom.com
 
Posts: 127 | Location: Texas | Registered: January 12, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Chazman1946
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I had three Glocks, the 17, 43 and 42. All are gone except for the 42, which I pocket carry.

I used the 17 only as a night stand weapon and to do my yearly LEOSA qualification, having to qualify on the same exact course all active duty officers have to do in Arizona.

Was having problems with 17 at the 25 yard line string of fire, the weapon just never fit in my hand right and the trigger left a lot to be desired.

Cured that problem with a Walther PPQ M2, it has the absolute sweetest trigger of any striker fire I have seen. Shoot the 25 yard line with no problems now.



Kind of envious of all these departments that issue you pistols, on the Chicago Police Dept you had to purchase your own, on your own dime.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chazman1946,
 
Posts: 59 | Registered: July 06, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Armed and Gregarious
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Most detectives don't try to "conceal" their pistols because they carry the Safariland ALS paddle holster, which is impossible to conceal unless you are wearing a coat 9x too big.
If that's how it actually works in your area, I'm impressed. However, in the places I've worked, I rarely see the detectives, who have a penchant for open carrying, using a holster with a true retention device, like the ALS. Most of those guys are essentially open carrying in a wide variety of holsters, of varying quality, which even if good quality, are really only appropriate for true concealed carry, because they have no serious retention device.


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"He was never hindered by any dogma, except the Constitution." - Ty Ross speaking of his grandfather General Barry Goldwater

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Posts: 12427 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ignored facts
still exist
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quote:
My G45's have replaced my 19s as my duty weapons.


Is a G45 basically a G19 slide on a G17 frame? Shorter barrel but capacity of G17?

(Google didn't answer this question for me)


.
 
Posts: 7278 | Location: Sunset Highway MP37, then turn South | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by radioman:
quote:
My G45's have replaced my 19s as my duty weapons.


Is a G45 basically a G19 slide on a G17 frame? Shorter barrel but capacity of G17?

(Google didn't answer this question for me)


Yes
 
Posts: 1260 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: January 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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The G45 is basically a slightly tweaked G19X, in black.

G19 slide and frame length at the muzzle, with G17 grip length and magazine.

quote:
Originally posted by DMF:
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Most detectives don't try to "conceal" their pistols because they carry the Safariland ALS paddle holster, which is impossible to conceal unless you are wearing a coat 9x too big.
If that's how it actually works in your area, I'm impressed. However, in the places I've worked, I rarely see the detectives, who have a penchant for open carrying, using a holster with a true retention device, like the ALS. Most of those guys are essentially open carrying in a wide variety of holsters, of varying quality, which even if good quality, are really only appropriate for true concealed carry, because they have no serious retention device.


My agency mandates at least one level of active retention on any holster carried openly during plainclothes or soft uniform duty.

Like jljones experience, that pretty much means Safariland 6377/7377 ALS holsters are used by most everyone in those roles, since it has active retention and the draw so closely mimics that of the Level 3 ALS/SLS duty holsters. Leather holsters with thumb breaks make appearances too, though.

Most of the time, I use a 6377 with an added ALS Guard, for an extra layer of security. But it's definitely not a concealment holster, unless you're wearing an overly large jacket/coat.
 
Posts: 21630 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My agency mandates at least one level of active retention on any holster carried openly during plainclothes or soft uniform duty.

Like jljones experience, that pretty much means Safariland 6377/7377 ALS holsters are used by most everyone in those roles, since it has active retention and the draw so closely mimics that of the Level 3 ALS/SLS duty holsters. Leather holsters with thumb breaks make appearances too, though.

Same in my Dept. Safariland ALS for off duty carry/court/plainclothes.


DPR
 
Posts: 427 | Registered: March 10, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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